<Lord_Of_Dreams> If you have any questions please feel free to send me a private message asking whatever you need.
<Lord_Of_Dreams> Stealing and PK's, what do you think about them? How should they be handled in game? What do you want to see in WoW that is different from other games.?

<flippie> pk'ing is a really important part of a game, to me

anyway

<Hoardbringer> Player Killing should be like Ultima Online

<EdGuardo> Well they are an important part of the game

<Bralkan> i honestly liked ACs pk

<EdGuardo> as long as they have sufficient punishment for their

actions

<Rav> pk is one thing, theaving skill is another

<flippie> ACs pk was good

<Hoardbringer> some towns are safe some are not, but the

wilderness, anything goes

<smirking_revenge> How on earth is ACs PK good?

<Rav> i dont like the idea that someone can steal anything more

than basic coin

<Alkuk|Garkulk> Ultima Online has good pking

<smirking_revenge> Unless you mean DT

<Junobil-NS> Right now I play a MMORPG where Im a PK. I have to

say I cant see playing a game without it

<Bralkan> and i belive there is one thing that ruins

Everquest's PK

<EdGuardo> I like that hoardbringer

<Gilthas> Good part about WoW (as with some of the other newer

games coming) is that they can study and learn from the various games

already out. They can find out what people like, don't like, etc. and

try their best to get the whole PK/PvP thing correct from the start.

<Pezz> i liked ACs PK system

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> Basically, I think WoWs appeal will be

that its a MMORPG Game, not a direct paralell to life, like EQ, people

will be able to jump in and start whackin ass, get bored and log off,

instead of trying to Sodomize Snakes for Experience.

<Bralkan> yes

<Bralkan> I belive

<ElvenShadow> I want to see an ongoing saga with dynamic events

made happen by the Devs themselves. I would like to see different

rules on every server to cater to the needs of every kind of player

<Bralkan> It should have an EQ side

<ElvenShadow> -=)

<smirking_revenge> PK has a horrible PK system IMHO...if you

die you have minutes minimum downtime

<Bralkan> i like your first idea

* Uael agrees with Bralkan

<smirking_revenge> To even pk you have to buff for - minutes

<Phyre|> Not going to happen Elven, Pvp will just be an after

thought like every other game

<Gilthas> Well, hopefully there'll be some depth to the game,

not just "Whack and Log" - there's a quest system, so they'll at least

be SOME depth.

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I just hope they don't put a 'Sleeper'

type character in it, I get so tired of hearing about it on EQ.

<Avandias> Phyre, Shadowbane

<smirking_revenge> If you die, you lose hundreds of thousands

in DIs (which is completely slanted towards dropless mages)

<Phyre|> Shadowbane will be a flop

<Avandias> I want WoW to be like Shadowbane

<ElvenShadow> I think there will be alot of Depth =)

<Phyre|> every betatester says so =(

<EdGuardo> I think...True Pk's should not be allowed to enter

any towns...(perhaps there is an outlaw town)

<Avandias> PvP wise

<ElvenShadow> Why do you all want wow to be like certain games?

<Hoardbringer> Yeah

<Dinith> yo

<Junobil-NS> I think PKing should be allowed in some areas

because the appeal to kill avatars that you know will emit emotions behind

the screen is always an appealing aspect

<EdGuardo> They should also be punished in some other way

<Zinix> brb

<Sparrowhawk> Unrestrained pking was the a bane of early UO..

however, some sort of modified system could work

<EdGuardo> im not too sure what

<ElvenShadow> wouldnt it be better to have wow be liek wow?

<Bralkan> PK should be handeld like this. Switch, on or off. if

its on, you should be able to do encounters like in EQ, while still

being able to work with all players and not hurt people by trying to kill

a mob

<EdGuardo> Aye it was sparrow

<SatC> ;

<EdGuardo> thats partly why they made trammel...

<sukooru> Ultima Online had a good pk system with guards

holding towns

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I want Arenas.

<EdGuardo> though it has left felucca dead

<Vsove> Actually, I enjoyed walking down the road in UO and

having to be afraid.

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> That'd be bad ass.

<EdGuardo> VSOVE

<EdGuardo> YEs

<ElvenShadow> Bralkan that is the worse idea, you cant hit me,

you cant hit me ( Whack )

<Sparrowhawk> Trammel was a quick answer, to a bigger problem

=\

<Sriikky> i take it no one here shines on a PK switch, right?

<EdGuardo> Wild Areas should be dangerous

<Sparrowhawk> Unfortunatley, it just avoided fixing it

<Phyre|> Pk switches are pathetic

<Phyre|> they never work

<Hoardbringer> I agree

<Sriikky> figured

<Bralkan> Elvenshadow

<Bralkan> not a switch

<Bralkan> like AC switch

<sukooru> Trammal butchered UO

<Bralkan> its a quest

<Vsove> You should always have an element of fear.

<Tirran> PK should be like it race vs race like in EQ on the

Teams Server

<Bralkan> not hard, but long

<Pezz> PK areas should just be wilderness, some towns, and

arenas

<Bralkan> so you can't do shit like that elven

<Phyre|> Either set aside a server for pvps, or make some sort

of unrestricted pvp system..

<Tirran> cept every race for themselves

<EdGuardo> On a regular Server...

<Lord_Of_Dreams> What do you think of the official solution

going in right now? PvP servers and non-PvP servers?

<Vsove> Bleah.

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> What are the Official classes so far???

I saw on a site it said 'Peasant' would be a class, whats with that!?

<Vsove> =/

<EdGuardo> There should be wild/safe areas...

<EdGuardo> a mix

<EdGuardo> if you go out in wild areas

<Hoardbringer> Well I would like to have the ability to kill my

fellow Orcs ;)

<HenesyBoG> FLOODERA BLYA

<Vsove> The PvP servers will end up like Rallos Zek.

<EdGuardo> you know there could be murderers

<HenesyBoG> VSEM MOLCHAT ;)

<EdGuardo> and high level monsters..

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> Yeah, I agree with Ed.

<EdGuardo> you should be prepared for it

<Bralkan> Edguardo

<Vsove> About half as populated as the other servers.

<Bralkan> problem with having wild / safe areas is this

<Alkuk|Garkulk> People need to know that their is a danger of

going outside of the town

<Alkuk|Garkulk> and that you might get pkd

<ElvenShadow> I agree with you EdGuardo

<ElvenShadow> but one problem comes to mind

<ElvenShadow> ANarchy Online

<Koraf> bob.. WOW has a fame type thing to it i believe..

peasant being the lowest tear and going on up to lord

<Bralkan> EQs long life is based on the aspect f more

challangeing PVE encounters, pvp can only last so long...but new pVE will go on

forever

<ElvenShadow> im in a safe zone you cant hit me, *Thats ok ill

just camp out here till u come out*

<Phyre|> If they make a pvp server, it'll be just like AC. The

pvp server will be an afterthought because % of the paying customers

are carebears

<Gilthas> Naturally there are areas that are more civilized and

populated, where murders wouldn't take place as often, or at all...it

makes sense to keep PKing limited to certain areas.

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I also think that if you are in a

section where Pking is allowed, looting should be allowed without

permission, if people don't want that, don't go to the section.

<Hoardbringer> I think PVE gets boring and PVP is qhat will

keep a game going

<EdGuardo> You know

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I hope theres an Orcish Blademaster,

that'd be da sheet.

<Uael> that could be true

<Bralkan> so if a place is wild, there cant' be large scale

encounters because people will be afradi of getting attacked while doing a

mob in a wild zone, so that limits zones you can put working encounters

<ElvenShadow> i agree somewhat with you Hoard

<Hoardbringer> For me atleast, eq never really interested me

<Uael> but there's more room for expansion with PVE

<Uael> than pvp

<EdGuardo> Safe/zones and wild could be abused

<Junobil-NS> PK >WILL< be taken advantage of if people in your

same "PK faction" can talk to other people of opposing faction. Ive

seen this scenario ALL the time in EQ team servers and its going to happen

here. Dark Ages prevents this ability in game, and even though people

could use second computers to communicate, overall it prevents this

problem

<Bralkan> don't et me wrong hoard

<ElvenShadow> i think that PvP is essential to keep it going,

but I believe dynamic events and story also keeps it going

<Bralkan> pvp keeps it going

<EdGuardo> Elven

<Bralkan> but if you want nothing but pvp

<ElvenShadow> take AC for instance , the Virindi took over a

town, then lost a couple months later

<Bralkan> go play quake

<ElvenShadow> Yes?

<EdGuardo> Dynamic events have to get the players involved by

really seeing the characters

<EdGuardo> otherwise it does no good whatsoever

<EdGuardo> seeing/interacting

<Drakos|-Z-> well i hope the pvp is better then realm vs realm

<Bralkan> yes, i agree events

<Hoardbringer> Well I love Pve too Bralkan, but computer

controlled monsters are only so smart

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I always hated on EQ how you'll get

like, bad ass plate, and it looks like its painted on your body, its

almost completely flat on you, I hope the gear looks real like on Diablo II.

<Gilthas> Well, we all know from watching all the games out

there that it's EXTREMELY hard to make a game that's completely balanced

and first the needs/wants of everyone.

<ElvenShadow> True EdGuardo

<Chucklez> Hoardbringer, not by a long shot, UO's subscriber

base has grown since Trammel was added, EQ has PvP total servers out of

over , with a small population of , accounts on PvP servers.

PvP does not keep a game going

<EdGuardo> otherwise its just pointless fiction

<Bralkan> where maybe devs / gms get people to fight and that

determines the outcome

<ElvenShadow> and maybe towns being attacked by Devs playing

critters

<Drakos|-Z-> pvp is very popular

<Drakos|-Z-> and i hate to say it

<Bralkan> you hvae one group of players who think this should

happen, others this...and have them fight for the outcome

<Drakos|-Z-> i play uo

<EdGuardo> Yes elven

<Koraf> pvp keeps uo alive

<Phyre|> Sorry Bralken, some people would rather fight another

person than AI, you know, have a good challenge not a carebear fashion

show.

<ElvenShadow> critters you can actually interact with rather

then a NPC critter that is triggered by commands

<EdGuardo> Seer in Ultima Online were great..

<Gilthas> PvP is popular, yes, but it's not the ONLY part that

keeps games going.

<Drakos|-Z-> and uo destoryed in my opition the popular way of

pvping

<EdGuardo> but there are legal loop holes involved

<Bralkan> but you have to hvae pve encounters or your base will

be small

<Sparrowhawk> Chucklez The EQ Scenario is a big flawed though.

Most folks WILL choose an easier route.

<Gilthas> I hate it when people refuse to acknowledge that.

<ElvenShadow> Also Dynamic storyline which evolves as we play,

making us part of the story

<Drakos|-Z-> i just hope we see good pvp in warcraft

<Bralkan> Phyre? hah....i won't go there

<ElvenShadow> the Never Ending story in essence

<ElvenShadow> =)

<EdGuardo> Aye Elven

<RaedanZZZ> I don't like pvp , if i did i would playt a

different kind of game like quake etc, I play games to experience things

With people at my side not to worry about someone jumping out of shadows

to kill me and loot my stuff

<Sparrowhawk> Chuck UO however, was a mess with the pking

before trammel

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I hope the price isn't over bucks a

month man.

<Bralkan> exactly raedan

<Bralkan> BUT

<Grey> not really

<Bralkan> PVP can be a good thing

<Bralkan> if you choose to do it

<Gilthas> UO's PK/PvP system has always been a bit screwed

up...with too much of one extreme.

<ElvenShadow> Raedan and you should feel that way when you are

the role playe like me

<Sparrowhawk> BobTheUnCoolCerebrate Im sure it will be at

least

<ElvenShadow> but you cannot take away from others

<Chucklez> Sparrow, look how many flocked to Trammel in UO once

it came around. Only a small majority of the audience of MMOG's enjoy

hardcore PvP'ing

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I got a question, You think WoW and

SWGalaxies will kill of DAoC and EQ?

<Junobil-NS> Ok people, lets talk about World of Warcraft and

not reminis on games. I think PvP should be an option in WoW but not the

basis of the game

<Bralkan> its fun useing your character you built up in PVE on

other players, its a new challange, but PVE is a pick factor

<ElvenShadow> so why not agree that making different servers

with differnt rules

<Chucklez> That would probably be because no game has yet to do

PvP correctly

<ElvenShadow> that caters to everyoens needs

<Uael> that would be good

<ElvenShadow> that is the way to go, this is a choice and the

player makes it

<Uael> like eq, has it's own pvp and pve servers

<Uael> yet on pve servers, you still have the option to pvp,

only you need consent

<Bralkan> i like the differnt servers, but i would still like

pVP to be a part of the game

<ElvenShadow> yea, i was thinking PvP, Non Pvp and of course

Role Playing and Role Playing PvP

<Sparrowhawk> Chucklez I think UO burned alot of folks out,

including those that migrated to EQ.. Getting gankged every minutes

isnt fun.

<EdGuardo> Well they are going to use other games as an example

Juonil

<ElvenShadow> there are servers right there

<Koraf> eq pvp is shit

<EdGuardo> Some ggames have doen things right..

<Alkuk|Garkulk> .% of people wont want to pvp if you ask

them

<Sparrowhawk> However.. special protetcion, etc can rock

<Junobil-NS> I also think mindless PvE killing for level/items

is a good formula

<EdGuardo> some have done them wrong

<Bralkan> I think if EQ had viable PVP it would be fun to go PK

every few weeks to take a break from the normal

<Pezz> just have arenas for PvP..

<Sparrowhawk> I dont like the way DAOC did it either =\

<ElvenShadow> Roel Playing PvP would be PvP based on guilds and

have a different system and not allow all out chaous

<Lord_Of_Dreams> You can look at PvP from the standpoint of how

much money it will make the company as well.

<Lord_Of_Dreams> EQ has , users, UO has ,.

<Bralkan> pezz, its fun going PVp and going hunting for people,

holding towns, etc etc

<Gilthas> WoW's PvP system may follow what the origional idea

for Diablo II was.

<EdGuardo> YES ELVEN! roleplaying pvp would keep me in any

game!

<Bralkan> but id like to have PVE to go and play as well

<Gilthas> Could work..

<EdGuardo> Lord

<EdGuardo> thats because the majority sadly wants to get cool

items

<Sparrowhawk> Lineage has a few million

<EdGuardo> and high levels

<Gilthas> Nah, wait.

<EdGuardo> its kind of like showing off a trophy

<Gilthas> That system sucked now that I think of it.

<EdGuardo> and some people are attracted to graphics

<Lord_Of_Dreams> EQ has no un-consentual PvP, and UO does. So

I think they will go along the path that Verant took with EQ.

<Junobil-NS> lol DAoC has roleplaying PvP and trust me, once

your level a game based solely on PvP gets BORING!

<Bralkan> is that not part of the game EdGuardo

<Bralkan> ?

<ElvenShadow> Yes, LoD look at this way PvP, Non PvP. RP PvP,

Rp Non Pvp servers - this would cater to every need not to mention bring

in every player which in turn makes blizzard more money so that the

funding keeps coming in and we see dynamic story lines and events with in

the game by Devs.

<Drakos|-Z-> seems like to me the pvp community and the rp

community are split like the white and blacks where in the 's =/

<EdGuardo> Yes..

<EdGuardo> But its not my major reason for playing any game

<ElvenShadow> its all based on the servers and rules - what

customers will play and pay

<sukooru> Good PvE and good rewards really made EQ but I don't

think it's right to totally rob PvP from a normal servers and then make

one hardcore server

<EdGuardo> when thats all the game is about (EQ) its useless to

play

<Harazzer> I can tell you that dark age's pvp approach was far

worse than eq's. Having experienced both, daoc pvp being limited by

geography, lack of logistics and tactics, and insurmountable level

advantages put far too many absolutes into pvp.

<EdGuardo> it will get old

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> How is WoW going to beat out teh other

popular MMORPGS with only waht? Tauren, Orcs, Humans, possibly Elves

or Undead... EQ had like twice that many races!

<Sparrowhawk> Why avoid PVP in a game called WARCraft (emphasis

on the WAR)

<EdGuardo> If wow is like that it may live but it wont be

getting moeny from me )

<ElvenShadow> Exactly Sparrow

<Hoardbringer> People should be made to fear outside of town,

and although they may like it better being all peaceful, they shouldnt

be given that luxury they should defend themselves against outalws and

the type

<Seviek> doesnt the world of warcraft have a built in model for

team based pvp?p

<Gilthas> Well, you have to understand that one of the reasons

Lineage has millions of accounts is because its biggest player base is

in Korea, where Gaming Cafes are the popular thing, and they have one

account per computer. That's a TON of accounts if you add up all of the

cafes (sometimes there are entire strees with nothing but game cafes)

<Seviek> Ie orcs vs humans?p

<ElvenShadow> but what is we were to make different servers

catering every need

<Bralkan> i think PVP should be in there, but it should in NO

WAY hinder PVE for others

<Sparrowhawk> Gilthas True

<ElvenShadow> I mean sure it would take longer, bring in more

customers and make more money though

<EdGuardo> Brak

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> Those Koreans love thier Blizzard

games.

<EdGuardo> thats why there should be Pvp/safe zones

<Gilthas> I don't think four different servers for each type of

gameplay would work.

<Bralkan> thats my main pointi have to stress - PVP should be

in, but it can't hinder normal PVE

<Gilthas> What happens if you want two of the four?

<Bralkan> EdGuardo, ok make your zones

<Lord_Of_Dreams> As Gilthas said, Lineage is set up much

differently than any of the US MMOG's. The software is also free.

<Gilthas> Or three of the four, or even all four?

<EdGuardo> there should be some amount of rewards for staying

in each

<EdGuardo> though

<Bralkan> but don't put any PVE in those wild zones, or i am

being hinderd

<ElvenShadow> Gilthas thats easy

<EdGuardo> The wild Zones would have better items..its more

dangerous..

<Grey> uo is free to an extent

<Canamile> I want a game where you spend years levelling to

get to where your character is useful, fighting the same mobs over and

over and over again </sarcasm>

<Junobil-NS> The MAIN thing I want in a game is ways to

customize my character and distinguish it from over + other avatars. This

includes items, skills, and other such things. I DONT want a game where

Levels is a HUGE factor in distinguishing my characters ability more so

then all the unique paths I can choose playing a class which has its

many unique paths to individualize itself with

<Chucklez> Companies are going to cater to the larger audience,

and right now the larger audience is the one that enjoys PvE, and not

PvP

<Gilthas> Have fifteen shards with different configurations?

ARGH! My head would spin.

<EdGuardo> Canamile!

<EdGuardo> Yes!

<Grey> they released it as freeware a few times

<Bralkan> EdGuardo, but that will mess people up...and it will

be a hinderence to the game

<EdGuardo> people were the highest level in daoc in am onth

<EdGuardo> i want soemthign that takes time

<EdGuardo> Well

<Sparrowhawk> that many different configurations would make

server control a pain

<Bralkan> if i want to pvp, i want to go pvp and no worry about

some AI mob attacking me

<Rav> well most ppl wanted highest lvl to be better at pvp

<ElvenShadow> Non PK, PK - the non pk is absoulutely none, Pk

is PK Chaos, Rp PK - is Role Playing but becoming Pk when you want and

having an option surely through questing to turn it back off

<EdGuardo> I dont think people should stay % safe

<Bralkan> when i am doing PVE, i dopn't want any PKs coming and

messing me up

<Sparrowhawk> The poor dev's would spend all the time working

on the differences

<EdGuardo> if you want the coolest items in the game..

* Gundanium hehe

<ElvenShadow> and Rp non pk - no pking at all with Role Player

guide lines

<EdGuardo> there should be some risk to get them

<Rav> most ppl leveld up to stay at highest lvl so they could

be the best at pvp, in daoc level means everything

<Bralkan> yes, PVE risk

<Bralkan> i don't want fronts ed

<Pezz> u can also just implement a PK system with lvl

restrictions, as in u can bash people much lower lvl than u

<EdGuardo> A point

<ElvenShadow> I dont believe people should be % safe, it is

WarCraft not My shelter is your Shelter

<Harazzer> thats everquest pezz

<Bralkan> put shit loads of PVE mobs, but i don't want player

and mob togeather on a high end encounter - main point there

<EdGuardo> but if you are going to go kill something in the

wildlands..

<Hoardbringer> I dont think there should be level restrictions

<EdGuardo> you would want a large amount of people with you

<Chucklez> Pezz, Anarchy Online uses that system

<Junobil-NS> PVE, if the game has this I dont want it to be

based on kill, rest, kill, rest, kill, rest for + hours to the end

<Alkuk|Garkulk> I dont think lvl should mean everything

<EdGuardo> PK's should be the dedicated few

<Greed> Anarchy Online probably has the best pvp/skill system

out right now.

<EdGuardo> it should be hard to do..

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Ok, are we ready for the next topic? Or would

we like to continue on with this one?

<Bralkan> good point EdGuardo

<Junobil-NS> It should be INTERESTING to do

<EdGuardo> And Brak

<ElvenShadow> there will be skills to earn exp as well Junobil

and I would like to see RPing abilities

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> I'm done.

<EdGuardo> if you are going to kill Azhur the ultime level

dragon..

<ElvenShadow> which they all as of date are shy of

<EdGuardo> You arent going to go alone

<EdGuardo> you will take like - people with you

<Harazzer> Personally, my sole interest is the pvp aspect of

the game

<Bralkan> true

<Bralkan> but EdGuardo

<EdGuardo> i doubt many pks will come up against that

<sukooru> you are a minority though if your complete interest

is in PvP

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Ok guys, more minutes for this topic. Just

to let you know.

<Bralkan> anyways, if a guy wants to be a jerk, he gets people

and goes and attacks people fighting the ultimate dragon

<Sparrowhawk> The game needs many things to keep you

interested. PVP is thing. That is what imho what made UO so much fun, and what

is lacking in EQ

<Hoardbringer> Maybe you should make stealing the next topic p

<EdGuardo> thats true

<ElvenShadow> actually from what I see almost / want RP and

/ want PvP - but we can combine them on a server and seperate them and

CATER everyone

<Sparrowhawk> I still play EQ, BUT imagine if it had the

tradeskills and housing that UO had

<Bralkan> stealing shouldn

<Harazzer> I think that most people would develop a much

stronger interest in pvp in a good environment... plain and simple, its more

fun to kill thinking, real opponants and not mindless NPC's

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Battling another player is nothing like

battling a monster.

<EdGuardo> but thats the whole point of it being the wild lands

<Bralkan> stealing shouldn't be in it - period

<EdGuardo> anything can happen

<Lord_Of_Dreams> A player is so much more involved.

<EdGuardo> Stealing should be in

<Hoardbringer> I think it should, I would love to play a thief

<Greed> stealing should be in

<EdGuardo> but you shouldnt be able to steal a lb pack

<EdGuardo> gold..

<EdGuardo> small things

<Hoardbringer> Well of course not

<Bralkan> i could see that

<Bralkan> anyone ever play the realm?

<ElvenShadow> yea, but if someone steals of me - i want to be

able to kill him for all you NON PKERS

<Bralkan> i enjoyed that PK system

<EdGuardo> a thief isnt going to steal a lb bag off your

back

<EdGuardo> heh

<Greed> how is it realistic that you can't steal things from

other people, that's a given everywhere

<Sparrowhawk> WB Bloodfist

<Greed> the realm was decent

<Bralkan> The Realm had a very good Stealing / PK system in my

opinion

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Ok guys, that was an awesome discusison going

right there.

<Lord_Of_Dreams> But it's time to move on to the next topic.

<Lord_Of_Dreams> This one is a little bit related, but a bit

different as well.

<Lord_Of_Dreams> So here it is

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Question What do you folks feel about a

Newbie switch, some sort of character invulnerability

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Go for it, )

<ElvenShadow> sounds awful

<Rav> to harsh,

<abombpk> and they're off!

<ElvenShadow> =)

<Hoardbringer> haha

<EdGuardo> NO NO NO

<Alkuk|Garkulk> like uo, should have a young status

<EdGuardo> its abused in UO

<Rav> newbie that switches it to early and cant go back

<Rav> dosnt work

<ElvenShadow> Switchs are always bad

<Harazzer> its easier to say, no pvp before "x" level

<Alkuk|Garkulk> where creatures dont attack you

<EdGuardo> YOungs go to the hardest dungeons

<Bunsen> if they design the game well enough they won't need a

switch

<EdGuardo> and they cant be attacked

<Rav> hi haraz! P

<EdGuardo> and they loot dead people

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> Definetely not, its be exploited.

<EdGuardo> if there is a switch

<Rav> def yea, level limits, switches suck

<Bloodfist> definately, bob

<Junobil-NS> The majority of any online MMO game is fun and

exciting ways to interact in the enviroment while having fun chatting with

the RL people you meet. Formulas in games like EQ and UO worked because

they always kept the "pace" of environment interaction fast paced. Err,

newbie switch, if you are regarding it toward PvP will be taken

advantaged of

<EdGuardo> they should be limited to town/newbie areas

<Harazzer> like they did on tallon/vallon in everquest after a

few years, no one under level could be engaged in pvp

<Bloodfist> newbies shoudl just stay off pvp servers

<Bloodfist> and fight monsters

<ElvenShadow> yea there would be people making NEW characters

all the time and leveling them wow they are not PK and maxing them or

making them super high and then killing everyone

<Sparrowhawk> invulnerable newsbies would only be invulnerable

to PVP attack

<Rav> - level limit sounds good

<ElvenShadow> that is chaos

<Bloodfist> hook up witha few ppl, mabye

<Hoardbringer> Well how about like in AO where you start in a

new area instead of a switch

<Sparrowhawk> looting others, or attacking others would turn it

off

<EdGuardo> its good sparrow..

<Rav> u could do it by mistake thou

<Nothxu|Fackhoes> why arent we talking about warcraft? \

<ElvenShadow> thats a good idea Hoard, but people will camp

outside of it

<EdGuardo> but they shouldnt be allowed to go in the harder

dungeon

<EdGuardo> s

<Bunsen> there should be areas that newbies can go to to hunt

without the threat of PvP

<Twister> or the newbie swtich would prevent from attacking or

looting others as well

<Bralkan> why ed?

<Greed|AO> so i take it there will be pvp everywhere in

warcraft?

<Sparrowhawk> Nothxu|Fackhoes We are ;)

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> a newbies place is whackin quill rats,

not pvp!

<Lord_Of_Dreams> I remember UO had a bit of a problem, with

Young players attacking other people. Those other people couldn't harm

the young players, even though they were being attacked.

<EdGuardo> Whyt?

<Bralkan> if i am lvl i might want ot go to the dungeon...

<ElvenShadow> How about only certain levels can kill certain

levels

<Lord_Of_Dreams> I wouldn't want to see something like that

happen again.

<EdGuardo> because they cant be attacked...

<EdGuardo> Not a veteran dungeon Brak

<EdGuardo> they have no reason to be in there

<ElvenShadow> this would stop lowbies from being killed by

Veterans

<EdGuardo> dungeons should be explored

<Bralkan> i want ot look around

<Grey> if a young attacks someone no damage is delt to either

party

<Rav> daoc had the right idea with frontiers, but one problem

was people would camp the enemy portal in forts and gang bang anyone

coming out of the protection of the gaurds

<Junobil-NS> Well if the PvE enviroment is designed well then

low level people shouldnt be able to get to areas where "more

advanced/leveled" people interact at

<Hoardbringer> Well I would like to be an explorer right away

)

<EdGuardo> a newbie could look around and know the dungeon

without any risk

<EdGuardo> True

<Elxr> wow lvl based? or like uo

<ElvenShadow> Veterans killing noobs does not do anything but

take away from the game for the noob

<EdGuardo> everyone wants to explore..

<Greed> the new players should start in a newbie zone, which

would be right by a town so that they can level up and get used to the

game and then go to town without worrying about pking

<ElvenShadow> why nto base it on levels, if you are between

- you can fight each other

<ElvenShadow> etc

<EdGuardo> BUT they shouldnt be allowed outside of a certain

young area..

<Grey> just because your a vet dosent mean you like pvp though

<Bralkan> thats true elven

<Bralkan> so, i would say no PK until this level

<Hoardbringer> I hate level restricted PvP

<Harazzer> well rav, the influence of level on pvp and the lack

of level limits makes daoc pvp very exclusive at this point... you

basically need to be - at the least to impact

<EdGuardo> that would be a problem in guildwars elven

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> ElvenShadow True, but people are coqs,

I've seen lvl s who ONLY kill noobs because they think its funny.

<Bralkan> but not like really high

<Bralkan> like

<Rav> problem is, many ppl find not pking just fine for there

entire game life

<Bralkan> like level if the max was , or what ever

<EdGuardo> you would have to get a guild of equally leveled

people..

<ElvenShadow> well Hoard how do you think it feels for the noob

who just baught the game to come in and try to play and find he is

gonna see the welcome screen umpteen times?

<EdGuardo> thats hard to do...some pople play often

<EdGuardo> then you may get new intiates

<Rav> by forcing ppl to pvp switch in order to hunt better

areas ur limiting ur fanbase

<ElvenShadow> it caters to the Veteran and not the Beginner

<EdGuardo> Not really Rav

<ElvenShadow> we need to focus on catering to everyones need

<EdGuardo> the coolest items in the game should be harder to

get

<Junobil-NS> Yes really

<ElvenShadow> this is how we will create the most dynamic Game

yet in the MMORPG community

<Bralkan> yes Edguardo, but PVE diffictult

<BobTheUnCoolCerebrate> Blizzard doesn't have to worry about a

fanbase ;)

<DouganRedhammer> just to know..... who here is into group PVM

????

<Junobil-NS> exping in the frontiers in DAoC (Most desired

experiance) has caused people to quit because of constant PKing

<|BLooD|> I personaly only care about pvp

<Bralkan> people should not effect my GAME experense i and

others are paying to play

<EdGuardo> Juno..

<Hoardbringer> I like to solo

<EdGuardo> The wildlands=Risk

<EdGuardo> they tell people that

<Greed> all until they get familiar with the interface, the

combat, etc

<Bralkan> the risk should be pk

<ElvenShadow> exactly Bralkan

<Bralkan> not pk and pve

<EdGuardo> You dont go out there unless you are ready

<Bralkan> one or the other

<DouganRedhammer> i've never did a dungeon crawl or anything

like this

<EdGuardo> Thats kind of limited

<ElvenShadow> tha tis why different servers with different

rules is appropriate

<EdGuardo> i would only go into the wildlands to pvp?

<ElvenShadow> it all goes back to catering for everyones needs

<EdGuardo> i dont like that

<ElvenShadow> i want everyone to say it with me

<Greed> in uo, they told people 'don't leave town with anything

you can't afford to lose'

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Alright guys, minute warning for this topic

now as well. )

<Greed> it should be that way in every game

<ElvenShadow> Catering to everyones needs

<ElvenShadow> =)

<Bralkan> EdGuardo

<EdGuardo> i want there to be cool items/monsters out there

that have to be worked for

<Bralkan> ok

<EdGuardo> and like i said

<Greed> period.

<Bralkan> pvp / pve zones

<EdGuardo> with a proper pk switch...

<Hoardbringer> I agree, greed

<ElvenShadow> there is no proper Pk switch

<EdGuardo> there should be very few dedicated ones

<Greed> screw pk switches

<DouganRedhammer> just

<Junobil-NS> I want items and skills to make a diffence in your

character output

<EdGuardo> true enough

<ElvenShadow> it will be misused

<Alethien> there needs to be diablo type items. i hate the set

iems that daoc has

<Greed> unrestrained pvp is the only way to make a respectable

game

<DouganRedhammer> Just make a guards zone and out of that ur no

longer protected

<Bralkan> but the pve would have to be weaker then a high end

pve only zone

<DouganRedhammer> OSI understood how it works

<Junobil-NS> DAoC has SOOO many damage/hp/Armor amount caps its

rediculous

<ElvenShadow> people will gain levels and never go pk and then

kill noobs unrespectably and it will be like UO or ACs DarkTide

<Aarlorin-Alb> too many items ruined EQ

<Hoardbringer> But the difference in UO is that there isnt a

huge difference between levels

<EdGuardo> Brak

<Alkuk|Garkulk> there isnt lvls in up

<Alkuk|Garkulk> uo

<Hoardbringer> So a fairl new player could still

fefendhim/herself somewhat

<EdGuardo> my whole issue is this

<Hoardbringer> defend

<ElvenShadow> i liked fefend =)

<Hoardbringer> bleh

<Syn> Agreed greed

<EdGuardo> there are players in uo who stay in trammel and just

hunt monsters..

<ElvenShadow> thought it added diversity to the conversation

<ElvenShadow> =)

<Greed> in uo, there was recall

<EdGuardo> i mean you might as well play everquest

<EdGuardo> there is no Risk

<Junobil-NS> I want the skill of a player to be defined by how

he plays, or what items/skill paths he has, and not just some

level-based kill fest

<Greed> if you saw a pk coming, you could RECALL out

<Greed> if you couldn't recall from someone trying to kill you,

you shouldn't have left town

<ElvenShadow> Junobil that is a swell idea

<EdGuardo> i agree there should be good items in the safe zone

<Greed> any character without magery was just stupid

<DouganRedhammer> make it PVM only OR have a GOOD pvp system

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Ok... wrapping up.

<Lord_Of_Dreams> )

<ElvenShadow> PvP only caters to the Non Pker

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Alrighty

<Lord_Of_Dreams> That was another wonderful discussion, )

<Lord_Of_Dreams> And here's the next topic, something that

interests people a lot

<Lord_Of_Dreams> Housing, what do you think about it? Do you

want it? Should there be enough land to guarantee everyone gets a

house? Server restrictions on population? Anything related to housing. )