<[Kiir] Hello everyone and welcome to our 4th, World of Warcraft community chat. What we will be doing tonight is discussing various questions about World of Warcraft. How this chat works is I will moderate the room and post a question, then I will unmoderate the room and let you all discuss the question.
[Kiir] Once the question has been discussed I will moderate the room again and post the next question. We ask that you try to stay on topic please. The chat log will be posted on wow.stratics.com for your convenience once the chat is over. Thank you all for attending tonight.
[Kiir] Our first discussion question is: PvP -will- be optional, how do you think Blizzard will tackle that feature in a good way?
[Rhymes--BC] Allow PKn
[zeed] we need a red server
[Kiir] and discuss :)
[zeed] NH rox0rz btw
[Kryst] no, not segregated servers
[NH] [--
[Sledeau] Same way DAoC did, pvp enabled areas, non-pvp areas, I would guess
[enormus] optional pvp is a step backwards, game designers should try to encourage people to pvp
[Kryst] let the noobs play with the reds
[Eric650] allowing you to turn your pvp on and off only every so often, so people cant PK someone,then immediately turn their PVP off
[Cian||] I think the best solution to that is to have harcore PvP servers, and have normal servers with PvP zones. to cater to all types of gameplay.
[nightrain] PKing everywhere
[LOWDO_68] pvp and non pvp areas seem the best choice
[Rhymes--BC] I think the name world of warcraft represent WAR, in war there are no RULES, even PKn is part of war.
[zeed] Need at least 1 PvP server much like Darktide on AC.
[cairnz] Blizzard should maybe check out how CCP does the EVE pvp, where it is enabled all over the universe.
[Kiir] So seperate server? that are completely pvp, and some servers with only pvp areas?
[zeed] yes
[Aztek] keke
[NH] separate server
[Sabin] no:[
[NH] absolutely
[Wolfgang] I think it shodul be handled the AC way =)
[NH] pk flag on the non-pk server
[Cian||] Yes, but ganking is not, and you gotta realize alot of NEW people would be put off if they suddenly got ransaked there first few moments on.
[TMF-Testvan] gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
[Eric650] i like having servers with PVP optional, and rules established like you can only attack players within a 10 level range etc
[Sabin] I would prefer free PvPing anywhere.
[Cid{FYD}] Different facets... like UO
[NH] everyone pk on the pk server
[zeed] No reason to level in safety to a bloated level then go pk, thats dumb
[Wolfgang] if you wnat to pvp go to a shrine and declare yourself pvp active
[Onok|Constor] i think guild vs guild war fare.. with alliances and claiming areas would be awesome
[Rhymes--BC] I think the name world of warcraft represent WAR, in war there are no RULES, even PKn is part of war.
[LOWDO_68] have you played the game humans don't kill humans for no reason cities should be safe unless its a rogue city
[Aztek] wow busy room
[novah] is any of this actually going to get to the developers?
[Onok|Constor] dont want to get PK'ed? stay in your alliance area with alliance gaurds
[Shai] NH = luv
[enormus] cian there are ways to encourage players to pvp and still avid 'ganking'
[Eric650] newbie areas should be pvp-free
[Aztek] i gotta do this just once
[Ev1L] Why a Seperate server, Why isnt it Possible to implement PvP areas and certain rules in to the normal servers, If seperate servers were made its easy to see what would happen, all the normal servers would be abandoned
[Aztek] O.o
[Replex] hmmm, maybe if it was all PVP, anyone can attack someone within 5 levels of them, until level 20 or so, then 20+ is a FFA..
[Shai] o.O
[Eric650] i agree with Ev1L
[Cian||] But there will always be people who log on,walk around andjust kill anything that is to weak to fight back.
[cairnz] Eric650, pk'ers should not have anything to gain by killing newbies though.
[enormus] when game designers go with a switch or seperate servers they are basically says we give up we have no creativity so we are jsut gonig to seperate the pvpers
[zeed] ( o Y o )
[Satbus] seperate servers would be better
[novah] how about flagging characters are pvp'able AFTER they've joined a clan?
[Eric650] cairnz no they dont have anything to gain, but newbies have much to lose....so no pvp in newbie areas
[Elryc] no they wouldnt, satbus, go back to everquest
[Cian||] Unless,as mentioned before you can only attack someone 5-10 levels around your lvl
[Satbus] yes they would
[cairnz] Eric650, which could be enforced with npc highlevel guards
[Elryc] how bout you all grow some balls and learn to pvp
[Sledeau] um, people still gank newbies even if they have nothing to gain
[Sledeau] I do it :P
[Satbus] if you want to pvp go to those servers but if you want to go pve then go to the non pvp servers
[Onok|Constor] yeah, i think gaurds
[Onok|Constor] safety zones
[LOWDO_68] seperate servers wouldn't be worth it I like the idea of having a duel outside of town over a matter of honor
[Onok|Constor] that will act on violence they see
[Eric650] i think all servers should have pvp optional, but varying rules. hardcore servers could have no pvp restrictions whereas a 'light' server would allow PVP only in certain areas/level ranges
[cairnz] if you have separate servers you would have to build separate characters if you start out on the non-pvp servers
[enormus] elryc thats not practicle, however deveolpers cna encourage new players to elanr about pvp and see how muhc fun it is
[Onok|Constor] unlike daoc, where guards watch ppl slaughter eachother
[Rhymes--BC] If there is no Free-PvP then they should NOT beable to use the WARcraft name.
[Cian||] Make the towns just non pvp then...then everywhere else is a pvp zone
[Cian||] unrestricted in a sense
[Eric650] that is fine
[Rhymes--BC] Like UO
[novah] let people level in safety to a certain amount, then to progress further they need to join a guild/clan
[double_shot] sall bout the humans baby
[cairnz] having non-pvp zones and pvp-zones can increase camping on the pvp borders.
[Dr_moves] pking forever
[Satbus] im pretty sure theyll have dueling system or arenas
[Eric650] newbies shouldnt have to fear dying right off the bat though, maybe have a minimum level to pk or be PK'd
[LOWDO_68] there need to be some zones for lvling though that can be played non pvp
[novah] so no leveling to a high level in safety
[Eric650] but make it server changeable
[Cian||] i mean,i dont wanna be in the city hanging out afk off doing something,and come back to find my corspe there
[Elryc] if you dont want to pvp, play everquest, dont ruin another game just because these preteen whiners cant stand to lose their 'hard farmed cybergold' no reason to screw the whole game up
[Dr_moves] dont go afk in the open
[Oompa] wazzza!
[TachyGonE] PKing Keeps the "Level Monkeys" in check
[Satbus] elryc whats your problem
[cairnz] Elryc, there are other than preteens that wouldnt want to be pk'ed.
[Dr_moves] pking pvp makes a game run
[Cian||] Elryc,there not making this game for YOU and YOUR friends. They have to make it fun for everybody to succeed
[Ev1L] Not only my last comment but if there were seperate servers it would take the fun out of a chance to build and have a go at PvP in the normal servers, At least if there is only a primary server happening players get the chance to get a feel of the game, Become more experianced and within the same server chhose wether they would like to start PvP'ing.
[Onok|Constor] elryc, what is fun for you might not be for others
[Aztek] im a level monkey =(
[Zeddicus] well they can play everquest too
[TachyGonE] The losers that sit there and level all night long just to ebay the accnt a month later
[cairnz] and pvp games seem to attract more whining than pve in my experience.
[enormus] elryc youa re totally ignoring the fact that game companies want to attract as many players as possible, they are not maknig the game for you, they are maknig it to make money
[Onok|Constor] blizzard will not make a game that only caters to one type of player
[zeed] I think AC1 is a good model for PvP only and Part Time PvP formats
[Onok|Constor] they will have a TINY player base if they do
[Dr_moves] Everquest is suitable to all those with to be in a social chatroom and do nothing everyday over and over
[Kiir] the game will have optional pvp
[TachyGonE] GO ask OSI how many players left when they took away FREE-PKin
[DDH|Darph] I agree with Elryc, I dont want to play another Everquest
[NH] of course not onok, thats why you have a separate server for people who want constant FFA pvp
[Beleth] pvp is a problem for every MMORPG, basically if you allow it full scale you lose accounts, if you don't allow it at all you lose accounts to a middle ground has to be reached
[zeed] yeah Kiir, but still need a 100% PvP server
[TachyGonE] then tell me that PK/PVP is bad
[Beleth] which is usually pvp areas/switchs
[Ghlade] Hmm. Didn't War III appeal to only one type of player?
[Yeti] o.O
[Cian||] but EQ is outdated-we need a newer better game,only balanced with pvp,pvp ect
[NH] yes Beleth, you separate the people
[Eric650] the point is total unrestricted PVP is not going to happen, at least not on all servers, because blizzard wants to attract all sorts of players, each with their own playing style. I think just having several PVP variables that each server can change would be best...minimum pvp level, pvp level range restrictions, place restrictions, etc
[Aztek] o.O
[NH] one FFA pk pvp server
[Elryc] well those who dont want to be 'pke'd' can have my copy of "Care Bears" for the 8 bit nintendo
[Beleth] thats what they did in UO
[Eric650] but all servers should have some PVP, somewhere
[Onok|Constor] NH, he is suggesting that all servers are FFA
[Beleth] and it worked kind of, but not great
[Onok|Constor] not a solo server for PKing
[[GT]Daxon] lol Elryc. preach on
[Ev1L] Yes But OSI are all about taking away and putting back in to keep players controled, i work with people that do the same thing in merchandise
[Beleth] basically you need to encourage the non pvp/pkers to NEED to goto pvp areas for things
[NH] well, i disagree, you can't run all the carebears out of the game... they're 80% of the market
[Replex] Yes, I loved how AC1's PvP worked... you choose to be PK or NPK. But they had a backstory and everything with that, not sure how it would play out with WoW.
[enormus] eric I think a better solution is to totally integrate pvp into the advancement curve
[Onok|Constor] personally, i would not want to start a game PKing, maybe have it implemented a few months later
[TachyGonE] Then *uck Worldofwarcraft wait for Shadow bane
[zeed] Are there any blizzard Dev's in here?
[Colloid] like war craft is gonna sux
[GanceTrandonson] I can safetly say good SKILLED pvp will be the deciding factor if I bother with World of warcraft. If it isn't interegrated well, I will not buy not try it. I'm tired of online chat room rpgs.
[Dr_moves] there is no point to play a shard if you want repeditive actions play EQ
[Colloid] u all die
[Beleth] if they can get whatver they need anywhere then theres no point to allow pks
[Eric650] if you look at EQ, all the 'pvp' areas are always empty pretty much.
[Kiir] Okay moving onto the next question
[Kiir] which follows the same vein: Do you think that there should be a faction system for the pvp options in WoW?
[Colloid] eq has siege perilous!
[Satbus] nooo
[Dr_moves] eww factions :P
[zeed] no
[Yeti] eq sucks
[cairnz] faction systems?
[zeed] just Guilds
[Satbus] factions suck
[NH] ick
[Ghlade] If they can find a better way to implement it than DAoC did.
[NH] guilds ] factions
[Cian||] Guilds that make up a Faction?
[Eric650] i think you need to define factions in more detail, kiir
[Leandrel] there is a more strategic element with factions
[Eric650] because it really depends
[Cian||] like a bunch of Orcs make up a certain Orc faction.
[Beleth] factions is one of the better ways to allow everyone to pvp
[Ghlade] You can't even talk to people in other factions? Bad news.
[Beleth] though pking is still needed
[Elryc] no there isnt there is only para ganking with factions
[NH] factions has too much of a UO/DaoC feel to it
[LOWDO_68] how bout race systems I can understand a nice war between orcs and humans and that would catch my interest
[TachyGonE] IF WORLD OF WARCRAFT DOESNT HAVE UNRESTRICTED PVP AREAS ON ALL SERVERS, THEN WAIT FOR SHADOWBANE OR DRAGON EMPIRE. DONT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY.
[MisterBob] Pst
[MisterBob] REPLEX SMELLS
[zeed] ugh
[novah] if they can come up with a adequate reason to use factions, fine. Otherwise it's just another exploitable layer in the game
[NH] but... sb sucks
[Ev1L] If you Implemented a faction system would it be possible for the Non PvP player to join it, PvP and Faction war all they wanted then, Opon leaving, Return to normal player status?
[Beleth] factions allows an option for free pvp against other pvpers without the negatives of pking
[Kiir] what type of factions do you think would work best? if any
[Beleth] so I think a faction system should be in
[Ghlade] Actually, I think UO's guild warfare system is best.
* MisterBob salmons Replex to the salmon land of salmon irl salmon ali likes salmon Yuric smells etc etc Replex owns you, oh wait Replex got salmonized so Replex SUKCS. Replex [3 SALMON.
[zeed] non kiir, Guilds!
[basil] Tachy, Shadowbane doesn't even have unrestricted pvp
[Onok|Constor] i really like the entire realm deal that daoc has. being able to talk to your sworn enemy is not always beneficial
[Voltaire] Kiir
[Cian||] World of WARcraft should be built around each race-each faction fighting for something.
[Kiir] yes?
[Ghlade] That gives players the freedom to associate in whatever way they choose and makes PvP voluntary.
[GanceTrandonson] Race based factions or areas. As long as its possible to solo and not just a gank fest ;p
[Voltaire] I think that you should certainly have the race v. race combat..
[Voltaire] Er
[[GT]Daxon] Tachy - DE hardly has unrestricted PvP either. it's restricted like crazy
[Voltaire] COULD Certainly
[Kiir] So racial factions maybe?
[Beleth] in WoW it should be like Horizons was gonna be
[Voltaire] Perhaps.
[Eric650] or class factions
[Elryc] I dont even know why you're all stating your ideas, this is a publicity stunt, they arent listening............
[Voltaire] No, it shouldn't.
[Cian||] Race vs Race, Guild vs Guild ect
[Eric650] class/profession/whatever
[Voltaire] Elryc.
[Beleth] blood wars basically, where taurons and orcs would be allied against so and so
[Voltaire] If you don't like it.
[Voltaire] Leave.
[Onok|Constor] elryc, some ppl like to discuss
[Zeddicus] racial factions would work if they did it right, but it can be easily trashed
[Satbus] rofl elryc
[Onok|Constor] you don't need to be here :)
[Zeddicus] like UO factions were
[Cian||] the only problem with guilds in a game,is ARAC guilds will arise
[Dr_moves] TRAMMEL EVERYWHERE
[LOWDO_68] I think a common goal for the races would be an interesting plot item it would be nice to have a little orc peon as my slave
[Thrull_Datrull] Racial factions would work great _as long_ as each race had every 'class' available to make a solid force, without obvious weak points..or weak points equivalent but different to opposing races
[Voltaire] Aw cmon ARAC this ARAC that.
[Beleth] UO factions are trash
[zeed] ARAC guilds Cian?
[Beleth] buggy pieces of trash that basically no one skilled in pvp uses
[Onok|Constor] thrull, i completely agree
[Eric650] factions don't HAVE to be violent :)
[Elryc] you're all IDIOTS, PLAY your GOTARD games blizard has ALWAYS sucked hairy boys, they wont change with this kindergarden game.
[Cian||] All Race All Class
[zeed] explain ARAC?
[zeed] ah
[Voltaire] Will someone kick Elryc?
[zeed] whats wrong with that?
[Aztek] err wtf is an arrac kinda like a blood?
[Ev1L] As far as factions go i think Factions Based on cetain Lands and places, and then Races brought in to decide what there role was in a faction- That is if you were to make particular races do benificial things in factions that a faction "Needs" to keep in war etc
[Voltaire] We don't need kids like him filthying this discussion.
[zeed] lol aztek
[zeed] all race all class
[zeed] I kinda like diversity
[Aztek] doh
[Eric650] orcs + taurens might work together in a faction for instance
[Zeddicus] and we dont need people whining about other people
[Eric650] that would be cool
[Replex] FFA would be awesome, anyone against anyone, but you decide what your allegiance/guild is and are generaly allys with them.
[GanceTrandonson] Factions will mean nothing if the pvp system itself isn't based on skill though...
[Eric650] sort of picking up where War3 left off
[zeed] I dont wanna be race restricted to what guilds I can join
[zeed] that = racist
[GanceTrandonson] Not some zerging fest :P
[Voltaire] Kiir, I'm a member of Shadowclan in a couple different games. You ever head of Shadowclan?
[Voltaire] heard..*
[zeed] Im callin johnny cockrin
[Eric650] factions should always be optional and never restrict pvp, otherwise they will suck
[Kiir] nope :)
[GanceTrandonson] Who hasn't heard of shadowclan :)
[Aztek] cochran
[LOWDO_68] race doesn't have to completely determine your faction there can be bandit factions that allow all races
[Cian||] i would like a fealty system sort of like in AC
[Aztek] goof
* GanceTrandonson is shocked
[zeed] lol
[Dr_moves] i want to go pking at level 1 and when i kill people and steal all their loot, i can be like posting pictures i did first pk ever
[zeed] oops
[Voltaire] Well, on Ultima Online and Shadowbane and other guys
[Voltaire] games..
* Voltaire can't type.
[Mattt] I don't think race factions would fit WoW, since in War3, the humans, orcs, and nightelves work together to save the world.
[[GT]Daxon] who cares Voltaire?
[[GT]Daxon] nobody
[Voltaire] the Shadowclan does their best to adopt a one-race kind've playing.
[Ev1L] There is people that care
[Dr_moves] save the world!? pfft Destroy it!
* zeed agrees with Mattt
[Voltaire] I'm hoping that WoW will be able to cater to that option.
* LOWDO_68 smites Dr_moves
[Eric650] mattt, they are still reluctant to help eachother though...generations of hatred is not easily forgotten
[[GT]Daxon] I'm not Voltaire
[zeed] yeah factions suck Kiir
[LOWDO_68] haha I get the second pk then
[[GT]Daxon] that would really suck
[Mattt] True, Eric
[Cian||] But the game needs SOME reason for conflict
* Aztek wants to be a sexy orc that gets stuff for free
[Mattt] but they are working on it
[Zeddicus] isnt that the banksitting trammy guild in UO?
[Cian||] some reason for the races to war with each other
[Voltaire] No, Zeddicus.
[zeed] the reason is to fight over resources and technology
[Kiir] okay guys let's move onto the next question now
[Kiir] Should there be playstyles independant of PvE and PvP? If no, why not?
[Dr_moves] no lets kill everyone
[[GT]Daxon] make guilds the emphasis - not race/faction/whatever
[Voltaire] What do you mean playstyles?
[Zeddicus] you should play planning to fight anyone
[Kiir] like traders
[Satbus] kill them all
[GanceTrandonson] It should be intermixed. Not seperated
[Voltaire] Yes.
[NH] yeah, explain that question a bit better
[Zeddicus] make it sporatic
[Mattt] Yes, Trade Skills are very, very important to games.
[Kiir] or tradeskillers etc
[Voltaire] Crafting and Mule-ish type characters are important.
[Thrull_Datrull] I think so Kiir, there should be the option to choose your style of gameplay, not be simply forced into a war-vs-something world
[Cian||] Traders shouldnt be immune to PvP but should have a solid defense
[LOWDO_68] resources seem like an excellent thing to fight for but there should be something else too
[Mattt] I'd also love to see other things, like politicians
[Zeddicus] just turn pvp on and off randomly
[Kiir] those that don't want to be involved in killing others or monsters
[GanceTrandonson] There are plenty of "eq" games, I refuse to play just another "I'm safe everywhere" clone.
[Zeddicus] thatd be different
[Dr_moves] im going to be this orc that kills humans and kill SC orcs
[MasterScy] the anti pvp crowd should have somewhere to hide, but not always :P
[Thrull_Datrull] for example you could be a trader and hire guards to travel between towns, etc...
[jfry] whens the rls date?
[Eric650] non-confrontational skills should be there for sure, but i dont think anyone will want to play WoW and never kill anything.
[Cian||] Thats a great idea Thrull..or hire real charecters
[Eric650] these skills should complement but not replace combat, be it pve or pvp
[Thrull_Datrull] that's what I meant Cian ;)
[Mattt] Why not have PvP "zones" or areas
[Dr_moves] you know what make a purely leveling and no pking what so ever
[Satbus] hire female mercinaries
[Thrull_Datrull] but the option to hire NPC as well, guards that do your bidding to a limit, based on what you pay them and what they face
[Ev1L] Yes, and the answer is back in my last opinion, Diffrent playstyles for diffrent races, wich (in a faction) would have certain roles and Activities that they must accomplish so that the faction can benifit from it, wether it be a certain race gather more resource than the other to keep the guild-faction wealthy etc.
[GanceTrandonson] having pure pve or pure pvp is very limiting... The best would be a mix
[Replex] ugh, PvP zones suck.
[Eric650] no one bothers to go to them, mattt
[Dr_moves] and when a monster is about to kill you, get teleported to a different town with full health
[Voltaire] Zones altogether suck.
[Voltaire] I'm hoping for a seamless world.
[Eric650] well
[Storm] if you have to zone pvp then you just have quake and trammel.. there is no risk except when youre willing to take it and thus no accomplishment
[Eric650] there are no zones in WoW...i think
[Dr_moves] with double your things
[Mattt] I don't mean zones as in loading
[GanceTrandonson] As long as PvP is done WELL, it will work. Random dice throws and "who has the best weapon or highest level" will ruin any plans for either
[Mattt] And I believe you load when you go into a dungeon in WoW but I could be wrong
[Dr_moves] i want to be able to kill in townsa
[Wolfgang] i still think pvp shoudl be handled teh AC way heh
[Replex] AC1 and maybe AC2(if they have optional) PK are good examples of no-zone games.
[Eric650] mattt you just mean designated areas?
[Helmer] WoW will be seamless Eric650
[Mattt] Yeah, Eric.
[Thrull_Datrull] the question is, is there an ability to purchase land/houses/sections within the warcraft world. Perhaps a charactor mining natural resources or harvesting lumber, farming, etc..then trading their gears through various areas of the WOW world, I don't know of a 3d-mmorpg yet that implements that level of trade function and crafting
[Eric650] if they are in mainstream areas that are often populated for other reasons, it could work
[Cian||] I like the idea of Charecter skill and player skill winning a Fight then who has uber equipment or who is higher lvl
[Eric650] if there is a specific PVP dungeon or something, no one goes there
[Ev1L] I think a poll should go somwhere commonly visited on these question asked also
[Kiir] Okay guys let's move on from the pvp discussion now
[Kiir] What type of weapon skills do you think the various races should have? Should Orcs be worse at ranged combat then Humans etc.
[Helmer] Thrull_Datrull, that was a very interesting question - I for one would like the option of building myself
[[GT]Daxon] need a dedicated PVP server - like Darktide for AC
[Helmer] with limitations of course ;)
[Dr_moves] half orc!
[Voltaire] No Kiir
[Cian||] Absolutly not! a Orc archer would be nice..
[Voltaire] I don't think so.
[Dr_moves] half orc!
[GanceTrandonson] I think you need to be very careful on having too many limitations
[Combine|Oddjobs] no more pvp, what else is there?
[Eric650] well its the classic issue of variety vs. balance
[Cian||] however a Elf archer would be better suited..and proubly have the upper hand
[Dr_moves] half orc + beserker rage = dum-glop ummies!
[Voltaire] I think, just like with humans, there would be varying sizes/types of orcs
[Satbus] orcs made great spear men actualy
[GanceTrandonson] Maybe just have bonuses in areas, but all based on simlar skill trees :P
[Zeddicus] i think they should throw things like they always have
[Mattt] I don't think races should restrict class options.
[Venom] balanced pvp server would make me buy the game
[Voltaire] So just like Trolls in war3
[Zeddicus] axes, spears whatever
[GanceTrandonson] Class based pvp is... bad.
[Mattt] But I think certain races should be better at certain things.
[chriscon-afk] throwing rock axes =p
[Eric650] hard to say really...i guess 'whatever works'. Blizzard spends a lot of time balancing stuff, Im confident things will work out well, whatever way it ends up being
[Voltaire] However, Kiir.
[Voltaire] I do feel
[Dr_moves] no how about just humans and orcs can be monsters
[Dr_moves] :P
[Voltaire] That, if for example..
[Voltaire] I were to chose to be an orc warrior
[Ev1L] I think orcs should be skilled at the Bow and close range but not as skilled as Humans, Humans of course would have other advantages but Orcs would be more proficiant with both rather than just one.
[Wolfgang] i think a human sword wielder in heavy armor woudl 0wn =)
[Dr_moves] and have humans and the same classes for 5 years
[Mattt] I like a free skill system, like UO2/SWG.
[Thrull_Datrull] I think Orc's should be focused towards close-range combat as in the classic warcraft world, very strong hand to hand..and spiritual casters.. while humans be more focused on precision and more focused scientific-matter-of-fact spellcraft like alchemy rather than spiritual
[Voltaire] I would be worse at wielding a ranged weapon
[LOWDO_68] I'd like to see bounties place on people who murder in cities but maybe make it not impossible to kill in cities
[Voltaire] than a melee one.
[Dr_moves] then release 2 updates to the game that adds a whole bunch of monsters
[Dr_moves] and snazzy colors
[Cian||] Free skill like in AC is cool
[Dr_moves] like a fire type cloth
[Zeddicus] the skill system is alot better, especially if you have A.D.D
[Dr_moves] blazing fire cloth
[Zeddicus] that way your not stuck in the same class
[Cian||] you make your char the way you want,by personal preference
[GanceTrandonson] Um...
[Thrull_Datrull] the same focus in classic warcraft games, why change something everyone loves :)
[Voltaire] I'm with you thrull
[Voltaire] Building on the War3 world would be kinda nice.
[Voltaire] But like I was saying.
[Cian||] Each class/race should have a certain strength and weakness
[Voltaire] I think that when you create your character, you select a "forte"
[Venom] if you guys made a Ac type Darktide server and put thought into it. I bet alot of people would move from DT, and buy your game ;p
[Thrull_Datrull] that's neccessary in every game Cian, the difficulty comes in class/race balancing..
[Voltaire] And your character is dependant on that "forte"
[Voltaire] Yet
[Thrull_Datrull] if they didn't have strength/weaknesses then there'd be strategy involved
[Voltaire] the character can branch out
[Dr_moves] no just plain human and if u want to be an orc you must dress up like an orc
[Eric650] specialization would be nice....say you pick a certain field of skills when you create the character and you can become more proficient in those than other skills
[Voltaire] But it can only range from dabbling to a meager skill.
[Kiir] Along the same lines
[Kiir] Should each race have its own special skill to be obtained that other races won't be able to obtain due to their race?
[Voltaire] No.
[LOWDO_68] I want a rogue city where a tavern free for all leaves some nice loot on the floor
[novah] murder counts should be used only for killing members of your own race
[Eric650] yes!
[Satbus] yes
[Zeddicus] definately
[Cian||] What do you mean Vol? like being a Warrior type lass...yet you can choose whatever weapon skill he will use?
[Satbus] YES!
[Venom] yes
[Mattt] Sort of
[Venom] !
[Voltaire] Cian, for example.
[Voltaire] I'm a human warrior.
[Voltaire] My "forte" is swords.
[Voltaire] I decide some day I want to take up the rifle.
[Voltaire] I can only become so good, say, half of my swords skill.
[Mattt] I think there should be some special skills but each race would be fairly even - just better in certain areas but also worse in certainareas.
[Thrull_Datrull] I think that's very important Kiir
[Cian||] thats cool Vol..and Kiir i think they should
[Thrull_Datrull] there has to be very definitive differences between each race and the playstyle required to play them
[Zeddicus] otherwise people would just be super powergame and make cracked out characters, like an orc who had super strenght but became awesome with a speedy rapier
[Kiir] to help differentiate the races
[LOWDO_68] I don't see an orc shaman being able to do a starfall so each race should have something unique
[Eric650] basically, yes
[Thrull_Datrull] class/race combos should be tailored so that different playstyles fit perfectly into one or the other..people can choose what they play best
[Eric650] we need some sort of differentiation amongst skills
[Kiir] so maybe orcs are strong and get a special bash skill while elves get a special bow attack?
[Cian||] Orcs should be split up..a strong and tough physical Orc, and a mcuh more shaman/mystical Orc
[Voltaire] Agreed
[Eric650] so that a tauren is perhaps better at melee than a smaller,weaker human
[Ev1L] I feel like my last opinions covered all your upcoming questions :) im gonna head of.
[Eric650] whereas a human might be more intelligent by nature
[Voltaire] However, I don't feel that humans would have much of a SPECIFIC area.
[Voltaire] Humans, as far as the history of RP games go..
[LOWDO_68] I still want to have a melee human though
[Voltaire] Are generally well-rounded.
[Cian||] Humans shouldnt be MORe intelligent..however,more resourceful
[Zeddicus] humans are always the jack of all trades
[LOWDO_68] how bout a nice barb for humans
[Voltaire] Now with dwarves or taurens..
[Eric650] true, humans tend to be the jack of all trades in games(and in real life hehe)
[Zeddicus] well in rl we dont have specialized races either
[Voltaire] Hehehe
[Cian||] Elfs..they should be like a old person..very stuck in there anciant ways...maybe special bow or nature skills
[Kiir] in real life we don't have elves and orcs either
[Helmer] good point.
[Cian||] and definitly magic
[Eric650] we dont? aww crap :(
[Satbus] im a warrior in RL
[Dr_moves] no just plain humans
[LOWDO_68] thats a lie Zed white men can't jump
[Eric650] hehe
[Thrull_Datrull] humans should be more specific in the intellectual arts, as most of the Foe in the warcraft world are monsters or beasts, while humans are more 'sentient'
[LOWDO_68] didn't ya see the movie
[Zeddicus] but there have to be young elves at some point Cian
[Dr_moves] then make ppl dress up like other races
[Zeddicus] they cant all start off old
[Cian||] i ment as a example
[Thrull_Datrull] Humans should cease to be 'jack of all trades' in games, and have more separation...or like in most games, the majority class are humans, as everyone wants to do everything. [Cian||] Old people are stuck on the old ways,as a Elf would be stuck on the old traditions
[novah] speaking of races they should include real human races as well....I'm tired of playing the human red-neck
[Zeddicus] well in daoc the only diff in races is physical attributes
[Zeddicus] which is lame
[Zeddicus] should be associated skills and abilities
[Cian||] it should be skill based,with no silly str and stam crap
[Cian||] except for resistences
[Thrull_Datrull] I think that would be in line of colour of charactor skin / hairstyle / etc Novah
[Thrull_Datrull] not a race choice, but character appearance choice
[GanceTrandonson] More choices, the more options the better the game
[Satbus] blonde blue eyed babe
[novah] purely asthetic
[Voltaire] Hrm.
[Thrull_Datrull] race would imply origin and traits as a result..but in Warcraft World the Human origin would be the same I would imagine
[GanceTrandonson] fully customizable character looks would be great
[novah] same attributes across the board for all races (human)
[Kiir] okay moving onto a new topic
[Kiir] What type of travel options do you think should be in the game? Zephyrs, boats, magical porting? And do you think that all transportation should be PC based, NPC based or a mixture of the two?
[Voltaire] Ahhh, yes.
[Voltaire] Horses for sure.
[Zeddicus] recall!
[Satbus] planes!
[Eric650] all three
[LOWDO_68] I hate portals
[Mattt] PC and NPC based!
[Eric650] and mounts, of course
[Cian||] Horses and Boats
[LOWDO_68] recalls ok
[Cian||] NO portals please
[Satbus] a plane would be cool
[Zeddicus] I hate having to run everywhere in daoc
[GanceTrandonson] Recall = bad. Travel is good to have however there needs to be links between areas
[LOWDO_68] horses are faster
[Eric650] in place of portals, you could use super fast boats/blimps
[SounRLFriend] mixture of everything
[Mattt] I built a flying machine!
[novah] well...recall/gate for PURE mages
[Melancholy] i agree with gance, recall = BAD
[GanceTrandonson] You shouldn't have to take 30 minutes just to get where you want
[Satbus] the transportation should be the mixture of both npc and pc
[Voltaire] eric brings up an interesting point guys
[Cian||] Orcs should get something like large Wolves instead of horses
[Satbus] but it would matter on what it would be
[Voltaire] What about the human flying machines
[Zeddicus] pure casters should be able to have some type of teleportation
[Voltaire] and goblin zepplins?
[Zeddicus] at least
[Voltaire] what about those?
[Melancholy] yea, use those!
[Cian||] Well
[Melancholy] charge a fee
[LOWDO_68] that would lead to some mouted knights
[Cian||] everyone would just fly around
[Eric650] i mean warcraft has always been a bit 'silly' if you will...flying across the continent very fast in a blimp would be awesome :)
[Voltaire] Well, hold on.
[Thrull_Datrull] I think the stuff-given to races in World of Warcraft should remain in line with that of the previous Warcraft titles as they were all, in my opinion, VERY appropriately distributed and balanced
[LOWDO_68] should a mounted knight have an advantage in battle?
[Voltaire] I think we ought to develop this idea.
[novah] there would be restrictions on where you can land with flying machines.....cities/towns would have to have the appropriate airfield
[Eric650] althought that raises technical issues....
[Eric650] like loading etc
[Melancholy] charge a fee to go somewhere, when you get there, ytou get kicked outta the zeppelin
[Mattt] Hey, speaking of knights, I think it would be very interesting if you could use mounts for tactical advantage in combat.
[Eric650] yep, i agree with Melancholy, kinda like morrowind
[Thrull_Datrull] I agree Matt
[GanceTrandonson] No one likes riding taxi travel... let the player have control of the vehicles to some degree.
[Voltaire] What do you guys think about maybe having a specialized class like a pilot?
[Thrull_Datrull] most games don't have differences in combat as a result of mounts
[novah] yeah...like "horse, go get'em" while you run away
[Thrull_Datrull] just simply faster travel or something of the sort, a difference in combat as a result of your mount would be a good idea
[Satbus] hm.. pilot
[Mattt] A pilot class would be interesting
[GanceTrandonson] UO does to a major degree thrull, you're wrong
[Kiir] a pilot coudl fit into the non-pvp or pve related classes
[Thrull_Datrull] as you'd have a better vantage point
[Satbus] be fun to crash er...f ly
[Zeddicus] could be like, a chance of falling prone if you get knocked off the horse
[Voltaire] Wouldn't it?
[Zeddicus] it has to have some disadvantage
[Kiir] it would be somethign that people who don't exactly want to fight could do
[Mattt] A pilot could also PvP (bomb upgrade)
[Voltaire] I think it'd be fun if, for example..
[Thrull_Datrull] GanceTrandonson: it didn't when I played, maybe it's changed recently :P
[LOWDO_68] a battle bonus for riding a wolf would only be logical so why not have horses do the same
[Voltaire] I was a pilot of a zeppelin
[Voltaire] I set up in the local orc town
[Thrull_Datrull] by recently I mean since EQ's conception heh
[novah] bolas are good to have like in UO to knock people off horses
[Zeddicus] but horses dont have fangs!
[Voltaire] charge a certain fee for flying
[Eric650] only prob with pilots being a class is warcraft has always centered mostly around ground combat, except for flying animals
[Voltaire] and transport orcs to and from whever.
[Cian||] a Heavy Armored Knight ona Horse should get a bonus to Speed and in battle have a advantege over a non mounted opponent,however in the case of weapons, Javalins/Spears/Lances should gives a icnreased damg output to mounted enemys
[GanceTrandonson] It has for a long time thrull actually
[LOWDO_68] hooves hurt too ya know
[Eric650] transportation/scouting was the only real use for flying contraptions in warcraft
[Cian||] what about Dragons?
[GanceTrandonson] it should stay that way I think.'
[Voltaire] I don't.
[Cian||] should they be ridable?
[Dr_moves] no horse racing
[Zeddicus] dragons were too expensive for effectiveness
[Dr_moves] all fighting should be on foot
[Voltaire] I think that aircraft should be a legit form of transportation.
[Thrull_Datrull] ok Gance before you continue, I said "MOST" not every. : )
[Mattt] mass gargoyles!
[Thrull_Datrull] I don't play UO any more.
[Voltaire] What about Inter-Continental travel, guys?
[Zeddicus] actually I think a gryphon back joust would be pretty awesome
[Satbus] mounts should be more of a way of transportation
[Voltaire] We gonna sit on a boat?
[Kiir] since we have gravitated thoward this question
[Kiir] Should mounts have any special features other then just being cool to be looked at riding and getting from point A to point B ( example: inventory holding, if a wolf will it help attack with you in battles while you dieing it, can you attack people/creeps while on a mount)?
[Kiir] i'll post it up now
[Voltaire] Yes
[Cian||] Yeah,they should be completly for just Transportation...but they should be able to go into your inventory if your in the middle of the boonis and gotta log off
[novah] assuming all resources are devoted purely to the magical arts, a high level mage could use gate/recall
[Zeddicus] gryphon back jousts!
[Eric650] i think this is hard to do, as traditionally horses wont attack things but wolves will
[Zeddicus] war trained horses will
[Thrull_Datrull] mules could hold inventory Kiir, but horses and wolves of the like I don't think so, they don't seem to be that sort of creature..more of a transportation/combat type mount
[Satbus] i think what he meant was
[Voltaire] I think the concept of mounted combat and the bonuses thereof are very important.
[Cian||] Well
[Satbus] jousting off horses
[Thrull_Datrull] and they should definately be involved in combat
[Zeddicus] gryphons!
[Zeddicus] not horses!
[Cian||] Dueling on mounts is ok Horse and wolf wise
[LOWDO_68] Yes a mounted knight would have an advantage over a knight on foot also some weapons could be used better on horseback
[Voltaire] Aye
[Eric650] well already a mount will give you increased speed/mobility
[Cian||] those could be the only two you could fight in
[GanceTrandonson] Biggest thing... give players lots of options lots of things to do
[Voltaire] Wolves and Horses are legit
[Eric650] and allow you to carry more
[Combine|Oddjobs] lol give everyone a pet to fight with them, theres pvp skill
[Eric650] so there already is some form of advantage
[LOWDO_68] I want a nice lance to run a tauren through with
[Thrull_Datrull] as in a Wolf would add attack, but a Horse would add attack to your person as Horses aren't known to kick-ass themselves during combat
[GanceTrandonson] make even throwing tiny options be possible, lots of fluff :)
[Melancholy] pvp isn't player vs pet =x
[GanceTrandonson] no it isnt...
[Voltaire] Thrull - I like that.
[Cian||] true thrull
[Cian||] i do to
[Voltaire] Horses should maybe provide more stability to the rider.
[Zeddicus] actually dnd wise, war horses can be awesome, especially a paladins horse
[novah] terrain should also be a factor. You can't fight in the mountains or forest effectively when mounted
[Voltaire] While wolves get involved in combat, but are a little more bumpy of a ride.
[LOWDO_68] I still like having a lance longer reach = adv
[Thrull_Datrull] or a horse could also add Defense..as it's more difficult to damage a rider than a footman IMO
[GanceTrandonson] Last time I checked online rpg's aren't DnD neither was warcraft in anyway.
[Cian||] And weapon bonus's should be added for mounted,as i mentioned before..a large double bladed axe could easly hit a horse or mounted kngith and hurt em bad
[Melancholy] elves could fight in the forest, mounted or not
[Zeddicus] we are comparing 15 other games that arent warcraft either
[Thrull_Datrull] but a wolf would add offense..that could be part of the racial balancing - Orc's with their wolves = wolves add offense..humans with their horses = horses add defense
[GanceTrandonson] True
[Zeddicus] its still a multiplayer RPG
[Voltaire] I'm goig to go afk for a minute
[novah] but you're at a disadvantage when mounted in a forest
[Zeddicus] NWN is online as well
[Melancholy] true
[GanceTrandonson] not mmorpg though
[Cian||] Horses could add to a Offense in a sense of charging in
[Satbus] would the wolf/horse differ?
[Satbus] and how would you get one
[Zeddicus] but warcraft isnt mmorpg either
[Zeddicus] jsut because it hasnt been done before doesnt make it bad, DIFFERENT is waht we need
[Combine|Oddjobs] mounts shouldnt add anything but stam an speed
[GanceTrandonson] World of warcraft IS
[Thrull_Datrull] that's negligable Cian, I wouldn't think something as specific as that would be a static addition..it would be hard as hell to program a balanced game that took details like that into consideration :P
[Zeddicus] this one is, but the 3 games they are basing it off of arent
[Cian||] Well,then mounts shouldnt be battle ready creatures
[Kiir] How much faster should riding a horse be and what types of movements should it have such as Trotting, galloping, running etc? What are some of the other mounts other then Horses and wolves that you would like to see?
[Kiir] is the next question for you all
[Zeddicus] boar!
[Zeddicus] gryphons!
[Satbus] gryphon
[Melancholy] dragons for tamers
[Cian||] i would like to see Giffins
[Satbus] cows!
[Combine|Oddjobs] elephants
[Kiir] griffons could be really neat
[Eric650] i think horses should have unlimited stamina for walking/trotting/galloping, but hard out running should be limited in time and have some sort of energy meter like Zelda 64's carrots :)
[Kiir] as could elephants
[Melancholy] anything that has a back big enough to hold a person
[Satbus] a moose!
[Thrull_Datrull] Horses, Mules, Wolves, perhaps some sort of mechanical mount for gnomes
[Cian||] The wolves could add to a stealth bonus maybe
[Zeddicus] elves could right antelopes or something
[Zeddicus] thatd be neat
[Eric650] the real question is....will sheep explode when you click on them? ;)
[Cian||] while the horses add a speed bonus
[Melancholy] lol
[Rhayde] lol
[Satbus] thrull what type of mechanical mount for gnomes
[Zeddicus] mechanical donkey
[GanceTrandonson] Make most things ridable... even a pig, (more options the better) just make a system they are based on. Pig combat wouldn't be smart but horse would
[Zeddicus] with rocket launchers
[Thrull_Datrull] ever tried to ride a pig, Gance?
[GanceTrandonson] What orc wouldn't love pig rodeo!
[LOWDO_68] hmm taurens can't ride should they be given a speed bonus to compensate
[Mattt] Siege tank!
[Thrull_Datrull] ever tried to ride a pig while wearing full plate armour?
[Thrull_Datrull] :)
[eric|work] i have
[Cian||] Dwarves should get something like a small machanical tank type thing
[eric|work] its fun
[Satbus] so what would gnomes ride be
[GanceTrandonson] Thats what I said, pig combat would be stupid. But give players all SORTS of options
[Combine|Oddjobs] ostrich
[Zeddicus] taurens could ride those big things in WC3
[novah] with a donkey he-haw bell you can ring
[Satbus] a tank?
[Thrull_Datrull] LOWDO I think Taurens are slow by nature
[LOWDO_68] oh well
[Thrull_Datrull] at least in WC3
[GanceTrandonson] don't limit them like daoc on template... we need vareity
[Mattt] Taurens are big and slow-moving
[GanceTrandonson] we need challenges and even pvp ;p
[Satbus] taurens should ride those drum things
[Eric650] lol
[eric|work] exit
[eric|work] !
[GanceTrandonson] humans hsould ride smaller humans!
[Kiir] moving onto a new topic
[Kiir] What sort of gear do you think that players who first enter wow will find themselves with ( sword/axe, shield, rations etc)?
[GanceTrandonson] Very limited
[Combine|Oddjobs] nekkid
[Cian||] Ok
[Melancholy] dpends on class
[Satbus] 1weapon 10/20 food + water
[GanceTrandonson] Give them almost nothing
[Eric650] just the basics...
[Melancholy] yea
[Melancholy] basics
[Eric650] weapon, clothes(not armor), torch
[LOWDO_68] human should enter with a pitch fork :)
[Melancholy] single weak weapon
[Satbus] for casters maybe 1-2spells
[Zeddicus] pick axe
[Melancholy] food
[Melancholy] clothes
[Cian||] this is kinda ripping SB off,but who cares.. you should be able to costomize your newbie gear to fit your char
[GanceTrandonson] enough to keep them alive ;p the less the beter
[novah] gee....I don't know...maybe a dagger and a wooden shield?
[Cian||] and scrap eating food..thats a lame thing
[Eric650] i dont think mage classes should start with spells.
[Mattt] food is tasty
[MoD_Legion] enter the game as Peons :-D
[GanceTrandonson] Eatting should be important.. just not common
[Oompa] SB is a joke, do not fear!
[Mattt] Ready to serve!
[GanceTrandonson] eat maybe... every 4 hours play time
[Eric650] make everyone start in the same way, and let them choose where they want to go
[Combine|Oddjobs] placenta and a cut off umbilical cord
[Kiir] mattt you think they should start with pizza ;)
[LOWDO_68] class should determine starting weapon
[Thrull_Datrull] al should start as peons or peasants and choose their path
[novah] but eating needs to serve a function otherwise it becomes an unncessary nuisance
[Cian||] You should be able to costomize your char to start off with a sword,a axe, a weak 2 handed weapon, shields..or staffs
[Kiir] So casters maybe with a club and a spell
[GanceTrandonson] don't instantly limit them from start out to a type though
[Zeddicus] staffand a spell
[Zeddicus] club..
[Cian||] Clubs,pitchforks..
[Zeddicus] bleh
[GanceTrandonson] give them maybe a practice all around stick ;p
[Cian||] daggers
[Satbus] a dagger
[Eric650] personall i liek the idea where a total newbie is like a clean slate
[Eric650] or clay to mold
[GanceTrandonson] same
[Cian||] OR
[LOWDO_68] I can see cian wants to be a rogue
[Satbus] sling shot
[GanceTrandonson] open to anything
[Zeddicus] unless there are monsters we can strangle
[Eric650] and as they level up/gain experience/whatever, let them make choices that affect what they will become
[Zeddicus] probly need a weapon
[Cian||] start them off with nothing,and have them retrive a newbie weapon from a NPC
[GanceTrandonson] Use the rope for the pig rodeo!
[novah] there, we all agree; give the newbie something weak....next question please
[Kiir] How do you think weapons acquisition should be handled? Randomized drop table for weapons found on monsters, static drops, trade skills, vendors or some combination of the above?
[Kiir] following the weapon theme
[GanceTrandonson] Some random drop... but let PLAYERS handle the creation
[LOWDO_68] random
[Cian||] Weapons should not turn the tide of war.
[Mattt] I think players should be able to make customized weapons, based on their skills.
[Mattt] and the materials used
[Cian||] Weapons should be nothing more then metal or wood,albet crafted in different degrees
[Volt|AFK] I kind've liked the way AC2 handled
[Volt|AFK] weapons..
[GanceTrandonson] Let players rely on eachother and crafted.
[Volt|AFK] Players actually crafted the weapons themselves.
[Satbus] should drop
[LOWDO_68] oh and weapons should be able to be bound to holder
[Melancholy] ya
[Mattt] AC2 weapon creation is interesting
[Helmer] I'd like to see a resonable drop.. I really hate it when a spider drops a bag of gold..
[Melancholy] no magic weps!
[Cian||] we dont need a sword of slaying +9
[Melancholy] we don't need vanqs
[Cian||] or a axe of mualing
[GanceTrandonson] thats true.. sure as heck don't need super weapons
[Storm] no vendors - 100% craft.. like Volt said, AC2 style... makes community important even in a pvp world
[Satbus] i hope its more realistic
[novah] higher lvl the monster, the better chances of getting a better weapon...it's that simple
[Zeddicus] we dont need super weapons
[Kiir] but a super weapon can be nice sometimes
[Satbus] you see a mob holding a weapon it drops it
[Zeddicus] but magic ones would be nice
[GanceTrandonson] Yes exactly storm
[Eric650] AFK
[Kiir] if you kill a major character
[Volt|AFK] The inter-person dependancy will create a constant supply and demand.
[Melancholy] we don't need vanqs, and we definitely don't need stuff like runics
[Mattt] What about a Sword of Kings!
[Mattt] Wrong game!
[GanceTrandonson] community should support pvp as well with equipment
[LOWDO_68] time to break out the Godly Axe of Smiting
[Cian||] Have NPC cenders sell weapons,but make the really good ones ONLY accesable by the players crafting them.
[Mattt] But Diablo items are interesting
[GanceTrandonson] Don't make weapons and armor super valuable... make it decay, make it get lost
[Mattt] with the random generation of them
[Volt|AFK] As long as there's a demand for weapons and armor, the economy will always have something to thrive on.
[GanceTrandonson] Keep a real economy going
[Volt|AFK] Kiir!
[Satbus] Diablo was a terrible game
[Volt|AFK] What about spellcraft?
[LOWDO_68] bosses should give better loot
[Mattt] That wasnt' the point, Satbus.
[Volt|AFK] Learnt inherently or possessed externally?
[Cian||] So if a master blacksmith can make a super high ql sword he will benifit from it
[novah] superweapons.....they are pointless unless they are blessed because players will simply hoard them rather than lose it to some low-level if they're ambushed at 1/5 health
[Kiir] spellcraft could be very useful
[Satbus] i know matt
[LOWDO_68] than can be crafted
[GanceTrandonson] Camping for something that lasts a year and you never loses is absurd
[fabel] item decay is nice, good way of keeping economy in check
[GanceTrandonson] yes
[GanceTrandonson] so is lose
[GanceTrandonson] loss that is
[Mattt] That's why weapons should decay even when not used
[Kiir] novah but we already know that the game will have optional pvp
[Volt|AFK] Good call fabel.
[Kiir] so those that chose not to pvp, won't be ambushed
[Mattt] so if you just leave your weapon in a bank, it will just break and you will have wasted it
[Zeddicus] if you lose all your things when you die then the economy should be set to where it doesnt cost all of you money to replace it
[GanceTrandonson] Just don't make "super weapons that beat all others"
[Satbus] item decay would suck
[Volt|AFK] Kiir, what do you think/know about mages and the way they acquire spells?
[fabel] maybe they should decay faster when used more also
[Satbus] cause your fighting and poof there goes your sword
[Volt|AFK] External or Inherent?
[Kiir] I don't know anything yet
[Volt|AFK] How do you feel?
[GanceTrandonson] Learn to repair you're stuff satbus lol
[Kiir] but I think having to actually research them might be fun
[Volt|AFK] Should the magi involved have to go to outside sources?
[Volt|AFK] I do as well.
[novah] with or without pvp, players will horde good equipment. That's just the way it is
[Volt|AFK] I think maybe a library...
[Satbus] sorry gance but my time in wow wont be sitting in front of a forge 24/7
[Volt|AFK] The magi go and study every couple levels in order to leanr mre.
[GanceTrandonson] I never said that
[Volt|AFK] learn*
[GanceTrandonson] I said players support players.
[Kiir] Such as, get me the head of the orc leader gorb, and the teeth of a flea, mix it with the tear of a unicorn
[GanceTrandonson] Not 24 forging
[Volt|AFK] Yeah, Kiir.
[Volt|AFK] I remember in the original AC
[Satbus] teeth of a flee
[Satbus] ouch
[Melancholy] hehe
[Melancholy] no doubt
[GanceTrandonson] Thats... more of an annoyance ;p
[Volt|AFK] magi had to combine items to get their spells.
[Kiir] maybe not all the spells
[GanceTrandonson] Ok that is worthy of having
[LOWDO_68] it would be nice to research a magical weapon to increase your skill in making a weapon similar
[Kiir] but the more powerful spells, just like the more powerful weapons shouldn't be easy to buy
[Melancholy] there are sspells that use just words, but there's also spells that use words actions and items
[GanceTrandonson] Don't make them "super spells" that imbalance pvp though ;P
[Volt|AFK] Or shouldn't be buy-able at all, Kiir.
[Kiir] exactly
[Cian|AFK] Kiir
[Volt|AFK] Earning is a good word of the day.
[Cian|AFK] dont make then buy-able,make them only made by players
[Melancholy] how can you be here, and afk?
[Volt|AFK] Or just Earn, for that matter.
[Kiir] I shouldn't be able to go to the merchant and buy uber spell of death 300
[Volt|AFK] Agreed.
[Melancholy] no, you should have to go out and look for that unicorns horn
[GanceTrandonson] Sholdn't have an uber spell of death in pvp crafted or bought ;p
[Satbus] should be 301
[Storm] or more importantly - go to eBay and buy it :/
[Kiir] Right cian, but a player has to research it first to make it
[Cian|iRback] Yeah
[Cian|iRback] oh,and spell creation should take time,skill and a few specefic items to forge the spell
[Melancholy] ya
[GanceTrandonson] just don't go to far where that is a pain heh
[Cian|iRback] just like making weapons should require the right minerals,and such
[LOWDO_68] should a crafter with higher dex or something be able to create weapons better than a low dex character
[Leandrel] it would suck with to much tradeskillz involved
[Kiir] that brings me to this question
[Kiir] Do you think that there should be tradeskills that allow you to make and enchant weapons/discover new spells, that you can
[Volt|AFK] Yes
[Cian|iRback] Absolutly
[Kiir] can't get off merchants or creatures
[GanceTrandonson] I think players should be able to craft almost anything in the game... depending on skill
[Satbus] that was easy to answer
[Kiir] being the end of the question
[Volt|AFK] I think that it would be kind've cool for someone to perhaps, devote their life to study of the arcane arts
[Mattt] Yes, player-run economies are great and very important to the success of the game.
[Volt|AFK] and after so much time elapsed
[Cian|iRback] i think that a player run economy can be balenced by people having tradeskills for many different things
[Melancholy] right, the skill would have to dictate what they can and cannot make
[Volt|AFK] that player can take his knowledge, craft spells, and run a "shop"
[Satbus] also player run economy goes down easily
[GanceTrandonson] Player run econmies are a MUST for any real working rpg... can't just have npcs control items and prices
[Storm] yes.. but only if the gain in skill is slow.. it defeats the purpose if everyone can set a week aside and max it
[Kiir] if yu have a player run economy you need to have decay though
[Cian|iRback] NPC venders should only be for low lvls
[Kiir] then again even without a player run economy you really need decay
[Cian|iRback] Well,decay should be in Kiir
[Melancholy] yea
[LOWDO_68] I think a player run economy makes things to easy to purchase I think some npc's should sell stuff too to set prices lvls
[Kiir] or the weapons become worth less as more appear
[GanceTrandonson] you HAVE to have decay
[Cian|iRback] and the Dwarves should be at the forefront of preventing decay
[Cian|iRback] ;P
[GanceTrandonson] and some loss of equipment if die or can't get corpse maybe ;p
[Kiir] Yes npcs are good, and they need to be around
[Kiir] especially if you play on off hours, so you can never find uber blacksmith jon, who makes the best swords in the land
[double_shot] :)
[double_shot] lol
[Kiir] at least you can buy a sword from merchant 101
[double_shot] uber
[GanceTrandonson] Player run merchant vendors are needed yes.
[Volt|AFK] Player run stores are important.
[LOWDO_68] I'm an npc fan they are so dumb sellin me bread so cheap HAHAHA fools
[novah] there should be less emphasis on economy and more on combat....if the economy becomes too complicated it will splinter the efforts of the dev team to make the game fun
[LOWDO_68] :)
[Volt|AFK] What if I don't want to subject myself to the leveling treadmill?
[Satbus] like a trader?
[Volt|AFK] Novah
[Leandrel] the best armors/spells/weapons should not be purchased from npcs or made with skills
[Cian|iRback] Can a player own a shop?
* GanceTrandonson hates leveling
[Volt|AFK] I think it's important we appeal to the audience who doens't want PvE/PvP
[GanceTrandonson] sure hope this stuff is skill based or a mix
[double_shot] volt: yes!
[Volt|AFK] ;)
[Kiir] moving on
[Kiir] Would you like to see famous characters from previous Warcraft games (e.g. Heros from WarIII) as NPC's in Wow?
[Volt|AFK] Not remotely.
[Satbus] Yes
[double_shot] no!
* GanceTrandonson don't care
[Satbus] i would love to see famous orcs
[Cian|iRback] Not really.
[Kiir] why or why not?
[Zeddicus] they would be good for quest purposes
[LOWDO_68] hmm maybe famous characters relations
[GanceTrandonson] Unless there is an actual story line yes
[Melancholy] doesn't really matter, unless they give off quests or something
[GanceTrandonson] Otherwise it is totally pointless.
[Satbus] not do anythng important just sit in the town or something
[double_shot] if so, don't make them so important so that players are required to interact with them.
[Melancholy] to get that uberleet unicorn's horn for that spell you want to cast
[Leandrel] i think its a fun element
[Cian|iRback] How far after the WarcraftII timeline is this happening?
[Zeddicus] Id like to fight Arthas thuogh
[Satbus] would be cool to meet someone face to face you played next to in a game before
[GanceTrandonson] just to go Oooo arthas... blah.. and walk on.
[LOWDO_68] I wouldn't mind besting Grom Hellscream the 23rd in a batlle to the death
[novah] it doesn't really matter unless they are actively part of the plot as opposed to just walking icons that appear once in awhile
[Satbus] Grom!
[GanceTrandonson] Yup novah
[Mattt] Yes, put famous chars from previous Warcraft games in story events!
[double_shot] if so, don't make them so important so that players are required to interact with them.
[double_shot] sorry
[GanceTrandonson] I agree double
[Volt|AFK] I firmly disagree.
[Cian|iRback] i suppose they can reappear,but they should be old..i mean this isnt happening right after wII
[GanceTrandonson] don't lock players in
[Leandrel] they should be quest npcs
[Cian|iRback] wIII^
[LOWDO_68] I still like the idea of droppin an old hero :)
[Volt|AFK] Let the WORLD create it's Important People
[Satbus] i just want to see them in the game
[Volt|AFK] Kiir - what do you think of this:"
[Cian|iRback] thats a good point volt
[Volt|AFK] Out of the backgroud of the world
[Volt|AFK] the game creates it's own personalities
[Kiir] Honestly either way works for me
[double_shot] u must allow players to do what they want.. if someone wants to be a pvper, let them. don't make quests that must be completed before... oh i don't know
[Volt|AFK] these personalities could then be developed and utilized where a preset char would.
[GanceTrandonson] That... never quite works :/
[Satbus] the heros wont be really famous but im sure you would like to see grom hellscream or other various heros
[Kiir] though i don't think they should be forfront in the game
[Volt|AFK] definately not.
[double_shot] yes: have them in game. no: don't lock players into interaction.
[Kiir] okay moving onto our last question for tonight
[Kiir] Which of these penalties would you think make the best death penalty? Item loss, exp loss, stat loss or exp dept system, some combination of the above, a new idea of your own?
[double_shot] first post! hoot!
[GanceTrandonson] Exp loss is BAD
[Cian|iRback] No exp loss
[LOWDO_68] yeha I spend all my nights at Grom's tavern the only place for good mead
[Satbus] how much exp loss
[Volt|AFK] Exp loss, undertsandable.
[Volt|AFK] Stat lott, no.
[Volt|AFK] err loss.
[GanceTrandonson] Make it possible to lose you're equipment.
[Cian|iRback] No stat loss,no exp loss
[Volt|AFK] Yes.
[GanceTrandonson] Losing you're experiance you've built is bad
[Zeddicus] i think you should gain something for killing people a little at a time, but if you die you lose all of it
[Volt|AFK] Loss of equipment is essential!
[LOWDO_68] stat loss is a major pain
[GanceTrandonson] Equipment can be replaced
[Leandrel] depends on how they gonna focus on items
[Mattt] XP/Stat loss is the worst thing ever!
[double_shot] how about an exp penelty, like u lost 1/3 of all skills for say, 10 -15 min.
[Melancholy] item loss
[Cian|iRback] Spending 6 hours leveling to die and loose it all is just..painful
[LOWDO_68] xp is traditional why change
[Leandrel] i wouldnt want to loose a weapen aquired from random uber mob_01
[Zeddicus] because we need change
[Melancholy] ew faction stat
[Satbus] how much exp loss
[novah] TEMPORARY stat loss and equipment loss is fine. It keeps players from jumping back in the fight two minutes after death
[Mattt] Experience debt is a good idea
[GanceTrandonson] I can live buying back equipment made by player vendors, but XP loss cause of some idiot is angerying
[double_shot] Melancholy: yes, faction stat
[Cian|iRback] EXP depbt is ok
[Cian|iRback] since i wont LOOSE any exp
[Melancholy] i don't like faction stat, but it works
[Melancholy] heh
[double_shot] temp exp loss i say.
[Kiir] stat loss can get nasty to though
[Volt|AFK] Binding equipment and other things is ridiculous.
[Melancholy] temperary
[Cian|iRback] no rez sickness
[Kiir] I do like the experience debt idea though
[Melancholy] erm temporary stat loss
[Cian|iRback] rez sickness is so annoying
[double_shot] rez sickness is ok in my book
[LOWDO_68] xp loss isn't as bad as stat loss imagine someone doesn't like you who has a better character each time u meet them ur less prepared for battle
[Volt|AFK] Agreed Double
[Kiir] yeah but if you die 5 times in a row, it will take hours to wear off sometimes
[GanceTrandonson] Stats loss is horrible
[double_shot] rez sickness ] perm exp loss....
[Volt|AFK] Stackable rez-sikness = bad idea
[Cian|iRback] No stat loss
[double_shot] Kiir: then don't die 5x i a row...
[GanceTrandonson] I just really don't want some leveling treadmill though...
[Volt|AFK] Agreed Gance
[Volt|AFK] Kiir..
[novah] so cap the stat loss
[novah] no big deal
[Volt|AFK] I think it's important that players feel a sense of risk and danger when involving themselves in combat.
[double_shot] yes
[double_shot] cap rez sickness to like, 45 min
[Kiir] yes or else they dont' care when they die
[Volt|AFK] It's important that players understand they can lose it all if the situation gets out of hand, or if they get stupid.
[Melancholy] only make it -33% of stats for a given amount of time
[double_shot] aye
[GanceTrandonson] Player based economy, equipment loss, player controlled world and intergrated SKILLEd pvp with no treadmill hell. Meet that and I'll buy the game. I promise
[Cian|iRback] that sounds ok
* double_shot is glad he was so influential :)
[Melancholy] if you die in that say, 15 mins, then the timer starts over
[Cian|iRback] Play the game? Blizzard will be my new hero Gance
[double_shot] har
[Volt|AFK] Gance, the only thing I would add to that..
[double_shot] i hope it's a new uo :P
[Melancholy] hehe
[Volt|AFK] Compatibility for Roleplaying.
[Cian|iRback] without Trammel
[Kiir] sigh my cut and paste closing isn't working :)
[Wolfgang] =P
[Kiir] I would like to thank everyone who attended and participated tonight for the great chat.