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| The 5th Stratics World of Warcraft Community Chat |
On August 28th, the sixth official WoW
community chat was held.
Unfourtunaly, no one from Blizzard were able to attend, so it
became just that, a community chat. Community chats are made
to bring the WoW community together and discuss WoW related
issues, ideas and ask questions. Even if you couldn't attend
the chat, you can read the log here.
<tabrizia> Hello everyone and welcome to our 6th, World of Warcraft community
chat. What we will be doing tonight is discussing various questions about World
of Warcraft. How this chat works is I will moderate the room and post a question,
then I will unmoderate the room and let you all discuss the question.
<tabrizia> Once the question has been discussed I will moderate the room
again and post the next question. We ask that you try to stay on topic please.
The chat log will be posted on wow.stratics.com for your convenience once the
chat is over. Thank you all for attending tonight.
<tabrizia> How do you feel about the current advancement system where you
have to level by killing monsters to raise skill caps for secondary skills such
as crafting?
<tabrizia> and start :)
<GrayRed> Hmm
* Elm waits
* GrayRed nudges channel
<Grendel> you shouldn't have to use something unrelated to a skill to raise
it
<Dajokster> would you prefer just starting out high lvl ?
<Cyto-> <crickets.wav>
<Tozzer> hi it me hexzar
<Grendel> like if i want to be a weaponsmith
<Furor> Well implemented. Following the road that most MMORPGs did as well.
<shirow> i think it's a horrible idea
<Grendel> the skill should go up through usage
<Kheldon> In my opinion it takes away the feeling of playing in a world
rather than just another online game. You basically have everything revolving
around killing things.
<Maus> didnt they say u'd gain profeciency with weapons the more u used
them?
<Maus> or has that gone out the window?
<Tozzer> it 6:00
<Vorador_playingSavage> skills should be based on what they do, the more
you use it, the higher the level will raise
<vid`> what vor said :)
<shirow> having to fight to raise crafting skills means there can be no
pure crafters and means that every fighting class will take a secondary crafting
skill hence no economy
<Maus> nyone know?
<Kheldon> The question refers to the skill caps, not the skill ranks themselves.
<Grendel> I think it should depend on the skill itself
<Kheldon> Your skill caps raise with levels and the skill ranks rise through
ursage
<Maus> WoW isnt going for a true player economy though
<Kheldon> *usage
<Grendel> Oh I see what you mean now
<Maus> so that type of system seems fine to me
<Mancub> bn
<shirow> then why bother having crafting
<Bain> non-combat related skills should have their caps adjusted by how
many monsters you have killed
<Grendel> Hum...I dunno
<JustinJoseph> It sounds similar to Asheron's Call 2 in all honesty, but
it will certainly depend on how easy it is to obtain the points to open up the
skills and how many variations the skill will have
<Grendel> I think there should be separate levels
<Kheldon> Maus, imo WoW isn't going for a true anything ;P
<Bain> shoudln't*
<Tozzer> so wat happen
<Maus> sub skill, something interesting to do
<Grendel> I think crafting itself should unlock higher caps
<shirow> then why kill things to get the xp for it
<Grendel> through usage and mastery of certain things
<shirow> why not craft to get the xp
<shirow> there is no benefit to making people do an unrelated task to get
xp for a certain skill
<shirow> other than its easier for the coders
<Tozzer> who going to be with the horde type 111
<Maus> i dont think coding comes into this
<Vorador> combat skills ok, makes sense you need to kill monsters for the
caps, but crafters shouldn't need to
<Kheldon> *nods to shirow* But that seems to be the path WoW is taking.
<Grendel> No, what Kheldon said is that the caps themselves raise when you
level through killing, not the skill
<JustinJoseph> I think crafting should not make your character powerful
<shirow> then what is the benefit of it maus
<shirow> there is none
<Maus> i think its to give people who want to fight to level
<Maus> an alternative
<JustinJoseph> it should only make him intelligent, hopefully Blizzard is
seeing it the same way
<shirow> they can fight to get combat xp
<Maus> which provides them with alt income
<shirow> if all they want to do is fight
<shirow> they should be fighters
<Aethyr> The same can be said in reverse... why not craft to get conbat
xp? Just doesn't seem to be fluid.
<shirow> yeah
<shirow> exactly
<Maus> some ppl dont wanna sit down making 10000000 arrow shafts shirow
<Tozzer> who going to be a orc
<Tozzer> type 111
<Maus> just to gain some crafting skills
<shirow> some people don't wanna kill 10000 goblins to become a fletcher
either
<Grendel> Think a few people missed what Khel typed
<Maus> they wanna be out building their chars
<shirow> it goes both ways
<shirow> if you don't want to craft then don't be a crafter
<Kheldon> You can only level through killing and you can only raise skill
caps through levelling. Basically to be a good crafter you either have to concentrate
full on levelling until you've maxed out and then start crafting or level a lot,
craft and then level a lot again to raise the skill cap.
<Maus> to be able to come back, and get a crafting skill, to make yourself
some useful gear
<Maus> without putting actuall effort into crafting to getit
<Maus> is a good idea imo
<Para> why not make crafting skill go up by using those items
<shirow> So it's basically so that people who hate crafting can be crafters
<shirow> What about if I want to craft to get combat xp because I hate combat
<Maus> basically
<shirow> Is that going to be possible
<Haur> there should be alternative ways to leveling then just killing
<Para> like SWG
<JustinJoseph> The real question is... how rare will crafts be?
<Maus> then why buy WoW?
<Grendel> Will crafting yield to-level experience?
<Kheldon> I disagree. Crafting should be a play style in itself and not
just a pathetic side gig.
<canICula> open chat?
<JustinJoseph> I mean will everyone craft the same exact thing?
<shirow> I agree Kheldon
<Grendel> I also agree
<Jakeman> hi guys :)
<canICula> why buy WoW? wow that is a stupid question? ;)
<shirow> Some people play JUST to be a crafter
<Aethyr> Agree with Khel
<Grendel> I'm going to be a full blown crafter, if it's feasible
<Grendel> but anyway
<Cyto-> thats quite scary.
<Yoshi_Ass> Everyone, new background on the forums!
<JustinJoseph> but they should not earn exp for being a crafter
<canICula> grendel do you realize how the statement sounds
<shirow> they should earn crafting xp
<canICula> "if its feasible"
<Maus> blizz is obviously forcing ppl down the pve/pvp route then isnt it
<Draiken> Well i think there will be some rare hard to get recipes
<Lyte> You should just implement quests to raise crafting caps. I.e == Make
the crafter venture up into the mountains of Doom and get a piece of rock from
a meteriorite guarded by a demonspawn,
<JustinJoseph> there should be two different point systems
<Maus> which i dont see a problem with
<Para> lets say you make armor, sell it to someone, now every time they
get hit, you get a fraction of exp
<canICula> meaning they have to incorporate the whole game with that in
mind? no thanks.
<Grendel> um...not really
<Lyte> Make a sword, hand it to a smith, and voila, crafting cap raised.
<JustinJoseph> one for Fighting and one for Crafting
<Kheldon> Justin, I don't know how crafting will be. But since crafting
are secondary skills, they are put in the back row. You'll basically have to kill
monsters before you can even start crafting.
<Rhuma> I very mcuh doubt you will be able to afford, being a full time
crafter without doing a little bit of fighting...
<canICula> that would make the game revovle around crafting, which is not
what everybody wants.
<Lyte> That way, their FRIENDS can help the crafter hunt the rock, and the
crafter doesn't have to do the level treadmill
<JustinJoseph> Kheldon, well what is wrong with that?
<Grendel> I asked if crafting will give you experience needed to level up,
if that's simpler to understand
<JustinJoseph> WarCraft is about war
<Maus> i think its a new system, that hasnt been tried yet
<WhiTey-FU> http://overstated.net/media/RIAA_PSA.mpg
<Maus> so lets not slag it off
<Grendel> It would give crafters the opportunity to pursue crafting as a
career
<Bain> warcraft is about CRAFT
<Maus> i think its a good idea
<Bain> ;P
<Tozzer> so wat we talking about now
<Flame-On> maybe it could be like dear i say earth and beyond when u hit
the max lvl of crafting the exp you get after that goes to combat
<Maus> i dont have to waste loads of money on stuff to craft with
<JustinJoseph> It is about both, to be perfectly honest Bain
<Maus> to get skills up
<Cyto-> I say let crafters craft and let me kill other players.. whatever
<JustinJoseph> but... Have you ever had to use your peon to attack the opposing
race in the older games?
<Kheldon> the WARcraft argument is a little outdated. We are supposed to
be playing in the WORLD of Warcraft. Not just a simple game where you can just
do one thing in different ways.
<Maus> coz u'd need to fight to get cash to buy stuff to craft with nyway
<Grendel> well said khel
<Kheldon> Warcraft is A LOT about building, researching, creating.
<Tozzer> so wat r we talking ABOUT
<canICula> uh
<Draiken> Im personaly excite for blacksmithging i love the way the wepons
look in the game fun to make im sure
<JustinJoseph> Well yes, when it was a stradegy game
<Maus> were talking about the unfeasable
<Kheldon> Azeroth was left out of War 3 because it was rebuilding from War
2.
<tabrizia> OKay guys nice discussion
<tabrizia> our next questions will be Should blizzard allow some forms of
pvp in the non-pvp zones, such as guildwars?
<Cyto-> YES
<Maus> guildwars, maybe
<canICula> keep it moderated please
<vid`> yes
<canICula> !
<Maus> free PVP, No
<Tozzer> yea
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> yes
<Grendel> guild wars should definitely be included
<Guest922079517> factional only
<Furor> Yes
<Draiken> nopers
<Dane> Only if racoons and porch monkeys wit 40's are playable races.
<Thief> Indeed
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> there should be guild wars
<FateRaiser> I think monsters whould not drop gold like we are used to in
other games , make the economy crafting driven!
<Tozzer> i hpe u get miney for guild war
<Grendel> same-faction guild wars should be permitted as well
<Rhuma> i strongly agree that they should allow it
<Cyto-> a strong PvP element will definately keep me and my brethen happy
and playing
<Aethyr> Guildwars yes! Maybe a way to set it up Faction vs' faction too
<pireth> WoW pvp should be like shadowbanes.
<Soun> i have some coons living in my backyard ;/
<Kheldon> Yes, definatly.
<vid`> guildwars, consensual duels at the minimum etc
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> for example a /duelguild command
<Mancub> A racoon race would OWN
<canICula> boot pireth p
<canICula> ;p
<Kerrigold> PVP!
<Mancub> I cannot stress that enough!!
<bcuz> hmm
<Ak-Gara> _o/
<bcuz> lots of people :D
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> we need a /duelguild
<bcuz> \o_
<canICula> how about for guild wars, fair game, anywhere
<Kheldon> War -is- an important part of Warcraft (I just don't want to believe
that in an -RPG- war is the ONLY part. ;))
<Tozzer> i will kill all human night elf dwaft and grome
<Cyto-> oh that would rule, guild dueling /happymode
<Dane> I know for myself
<canICula> during zoning, during...crafting *shudder*'
<Dane> I'm packin
<Jakeman> If you have a sec, please stop by my thread and reply with your
vote. Thanks - http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=486113&P=1&ReplyCount=116#post486113
<Dane> atleast 19 inches
<Tozzer> long llive the horde
<Sajko> Guildwars own :)
<Bain> duels and arena fights arn't what most people consider pvp
<JustinJoseph> If Blizzard allows pk in the non player zones then people
will grief
<Dajokster> thats an idea guild wars
<FateRaiser> Players should not rely on monsters to make gold , they should
rather rely on their local crafters and sell them raw materials instead
<Soun> GRIEFING IS GOOD !
<Tozzer> i will post it now
<canICula> flawless economy incorporation is impossible.
Grendel> I don't see why anyone opposes the pvp ideas, you're not being forced
into them. Why limit the options people have?
<Dane> GRIEF GREENY
<Maus> crafters to make money in a hacl and slash mmo, no
<canICula> player driven, that is.
<Maus> hack*
<Bain> having an open area guildwar where anytime/anywhere combat is allowed
between those guilds would really add some fun
<JustinJoseph> there is no way around it... so they had to come up with
a system so that griefing would come to a halt or atleast at a minimum amount
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> no it shouldnt be open PvP
<FateRaiser> WoW is not hack n slash
<JustinJoseph> Well there will be guild wars
<Kheldon> I'm definatly all for guild wars, duels. And not just in arenas.
Would be great if two guilds in war could ambush each other anywhere. (for consents
sake they'll have to have waged war upon eachh other first)
<Dane> Can it be bash n slash?
<Bain> guildwars arn't griefing/pk'ing
<bcuz> huk huk huk
<Maus> aint u rpers abit bothered by same faction pvp?
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> there should be PvP allowed in certain areas and only
if both parties consent in non pvp zones
<Maus> its a hack and slas mmo fate
<Bain> they are two guilds who agree to fight anywhere/anytime
<JustinJoseph> but they will happen mostly in the Arena and in the Battle
Fields ( almost like DAoC )
<vid`> multiple guildwars should be allowed also
<canICula> WoW is about the saga of strife...
<Soun> you dont have to have consent to bang someone irl why would you need
consent in a game
<canICula> it is going to be combat oriented.
<FateRaiser> I dont think like you but its ok
* Ak-Gara Snuggles upto Maus with some hot coco.
<vid`> uo style, not like eq where there is a 1 guildwar limit ;)
<Maus> mainly coz blizz have shown its common to fight multiple mobs and
come out on top
<Grendel> RP'ers shouldn't be bothered by same faction pvp
<Egg_> if you guys would have read the CGW article, you'd know that "guild"
wars aren't going to be held only in the arena
<canICula> the primary focus should thus be, combat oriented.
<pireth> no dane, it's irc
<Dajokster> for those of you that enjoy PVP their will never be a game that
offers that thrill UO once diliverd with the PVP game it just wont happen IMO
<Draiken> that i would have to agree with
<bcuz> lol
<Maus> yer lo gara =P
<Egg_> but in designated open areas
<bcuz> gara you know maus?
<Sedain> lol
<bcuz> wow people are talking too fast :D
<Rhuma> Roleplayers shouldnt be bothered. You cant honestly believe a band
of orcs or humans can get along with eachother 100% of the time
<FateRaiser> WoW is a 2nd Gen MMO and it will be much more then a grind
fest
<Kerrigold> Dane if the elfgirl is having cybersex all the time.... yes
<Maus> yer bcuz im an eve oldbie =P
<vid`> so in essence, 6 guilds could perma guildwar each other and they
would be pvp+ to each other wherever
<Kerrigold> definately
<canICula> thats fine egg_ because guild wars need their own space, the
lag other wise, ruins em. Spoils any and all fun
<Ak-Gara> lol i know what you mean bcuz
<Egg_> i agree totally
<canICula> guild wars meaning on the 20 vs 20
<canICula> etc.
<bcuz> maus .. ah..
<Grendel> yeah cani, i agree with that
<Cyto-> hmmm crafters join a guild who doesnt PvP
<Maus> ex omnistar
<Grendel> lag destroys fights of that magnitutde
<Grendel> magnitude*
<canICula> yup
<Cyto-> then we can have permanent PvP guilds
<Cyto-> as both GLs accept PvP
<Bain> the question was should guildwar type of things be allowed outside
the normal pvp zones
<Cyto-> very much so
<bcuz> they better really come through with the guild aspects.. because
they promised it for DIABLOII with guild halls..
<Bain> remember guildwars would be up to the guilds if they want to participate
or not
<bcuz> but htey never came through..
<Dajokster> theirs no feeling like hunting with your guild and all of a
sudden run into the other guild and bam clash of the titans makes for great memories
<pireth> i believe the land should be free cept for a few safeholds
<Cyto-> who is it bothering here? no one.
<FateRaiser> I think guild wars should occur in order to control dungeon
quest access instead of just we dont like you lets make a war
<Ak-Gara> isnt it funny how this room has less people than EVE Online room
but they all just sit there not talking?
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> yeah
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> certain nice dungeons
<Grendel> I think it should be up to the guilds where and when
<Kheldon> I agree. Two guilds that has entered into war should not feel
that they can just leave the PvP zone to get a break from the war. They either
win or forfeit if they don't want to continue fighting.
<Grendel> they shouldn't be too restricted
<Egg_> how many here haven't read the CGW article btw?
<Dajokster> i think for Guild PVP it should be allowed anywere
<Grendel> they should be kept out of towns for lag purposes
<Grendel> for lag reasons, rather
<Dajokster> thats also viable
<Draiken> Heres an idea dont you think blizzard could make areas for guild
wars and such that are instinced?
<Tozzer> i posted the guild wars
<Tozzer> at WoW forums
<Maus> next q?
<Kheldon> I'm a firm believer that instancing should be used minimally.
<Tozzer> so who will ge on the horde side
<Kheldon> As little as possible.
<tabrizia> OKay let's move onto the next question
<tabrizia> Do you think Alliance and Horde members should be able to venture
into enemy territory at their own risks or should it be restricted like faction
realms in DAoC?
<Grendel> at their own risks
<Maus> venture
<Grendel> yeah
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> own risk
<vid`> own risk
<canICula> at risk , no insta kill guards
<ES|Pseudo> own risk
<Cyto-> risk risk risk
<Ak-Gara> er, did my last message get thrugh?
<Sedain> at their own risk
<TheGreatMoose> at their own risk
<Jakeman> own risk
<Draiken> at own risck
<canICula> let us defend our own land.
<Ak-Gara> oh no it didnt
<Rhuma> definatly
<ES|Pseudo> with guards that are defeatable
<Cyto-> can someone say risk?
<FateRaiser> Yea guild wars should occur on dedicated battlefields , much
like the private dungeon quest sessions they talked about
<vid`> restriction is a bad idea
<Maus> isnt there gonna be venturing nyway, to boost faction standing, to
gain new mounts etc?
<Tozzer> i think horde should be with the horde
<Aethyr> At their own risk...
<Furor> venture
<ES|Pseudo> leave it up to the players to kill them
<JustinJoseph> They should be able to venture
<rev> if ur at war, war doesnt happen at a time and a place
<Maus> npc guards will deal with most
<JustinJoseph> definitely, we do not need a DAoC clone
<rev> u run into it
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> I think there should be ROAMING guards
<rev> well ur an idiot
<rev> sir
<Grendel> there should be a few NPC guards, but players should largely be
ready to defend their own lands
<Maus> the npc's sound pretty cool
<Immortalknight> need to be able to kill players EVERYWHERE
<Dajokster> but you also have to respect other gamers not all like to PVP
so they should not have to do it if they dont enjoy it
<canICula> guild is all about representation. There should be losers in
guild conflicts. There should be winners also. It is about survival while waving
that flag, and whos banner burn, the cost of carrying it.
<Immortalknight> or atleast make a server like that
<Tozzer> wait
<Cyto-> we need daoc pvp elements but not a clone, no :)
<Maus> theyll help out in the pvp fields
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> exactly
<rev> wow
<Immortalknight> no more carebear shit games please
<rev> waste oftime
<Tozzer> wait
<JustinJoseph> exactly cyto
Tozzer> i got a question
<JustinJoseph> that would be horrible
<canICula> so horde/alliance need to be able to defeat opponents on their
own terms
<JustinJoseph> to clone DAoC
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> if im a low lvl i dont want to waste my time getting
killed over and over by a much higher lvl
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> takes the fun out of the game
<Maus> daoc got best pvp system though
<Draiken> could have military incampments and boarder guards
<Tozzer> one at a time
<Cyto-> rps and free pvp zones are excellent sides of pvp WoW needs
<Grendel> well, you could always stay out of the pvp zones then
<Grendel> i'm sure there are going to be options for safe pve ONLY hunting
<canICula> if there is no benefit to kill you over and over you'll only
be killed one time so long as once you get killed it penalizes to repeat the useless
and meaningless killing
<Flame-On> i think there should be npc guard but they should only attack
the person if they have like bad fraction standings with the area they are in
<FateRaiser> carebears as you call them are often the coolest peoples you
ll meet online
<canICula> say, getting your head flagged, and then maybe npc hunting parties
can rid you from their land
<Haur> well pvp doesn´t mean anything if the have a carebear death
<canICula> prefferably restricted only to the newbie areas.
<Jeremias> Bah UO before R had best PvP systems
<FateRaiser> Im not a carebear but I ve met quite a few and all of them
proved of great help
<Dajokster> its not care bear but some people like to craft and play that
role while others like to PVP so both should have the right to do so and i think
Guild wars or perhaps joining a race faction some thing like UO faction wars
<Draiken> just because someone isnt into pvp doesnt make em carebears
<Para> I'm a carebare and I love it
<Haur> but most ppl hate pvp
<Grendel> That's fine, but people who don't want to pvp should stay out
of those areas
<Kheldon> Can, PvP is consensual any way so why would newbie areas need
be restricted?
<vid`> yea something like the uo chaos/order system would be cool ;)
<canICula> to prevent those high level experienced players who are getting
picked on in real life from bullying the new starters
<vid`> but then you get into the whole immunity healing area /shrug
<canICula> bad way to keep beginners playing
<Tozzer> i think they should be a pvp 1 zone big
<Flame-On> what you call cnsensual someone may call rape :)
<Dajokster> once again this is just brainstorming
<Kerrigold> a game without pvp? just like leveling and gathering items?
for that blizz does not need to create a new game
<Jeremias> just asking why can't Normal people just learn th defend themselfs
?
<Kerrigold> :P
<Kerrigold> jep
<Maus> theres enuff pvp as it is, anymore is just a plus
<Maus> ecept free pvp, thats taking it too far
<Tozzer> i like the camping idea
<FateRaiser> Nah newbies should not be allowed into PvP at all
<Dajokster> and why cant you just sit their for hours crafting
<FateRaiser> Put a level req of say 20
<Xilanle> People just don't like risk Jer
<Jeremias> why is it always PVper who need to change or are limited
<Jole> only if i can roll up on dajokster while hes crafting and BS him
for 100000 dmg will i be happy in wow ;/
<FateRaiser> Wars change a world my friend
<Dajokster> whooo
<FateRaiser> actions must be taken , not just simple words
<Rixxen> Jermias why is it your sitting at your comp now and not learning
to defend your self
<Dajokster> but see i am not a crafter id be hiding a big bonker and bonk
you silly
<Rixxen> because you don't want to have to worry about it
<Dajokster> and then kill the mount that brought you for good mesure
<canICula> guild war won't require consent?
<Para> what does pvp have to do with risk?
<FateRaiser> I dont think so
<Grendel> guild war should require consent
<Rixxen> K stay on topic plz
<canICula> new question?
<Jeremias> Hmm well when WoW comes out yes I will be PVping
<FateRaiser> guild wars will always require consent
<Haur> think there should be a level difference even in guild wars
<Grendel> but enemy territory should be a ffa, in terms of alliance vs horde
<Jeremias> and mostlikely i NEED to learn defend myself
<FateRaiser> Or will probably happen on a fixed date every week ala SWG
<Jeremias> I haven't actully have had any change to test the game
<canICula> well to declare on a guild so terrified of fighting the most
infamous and prominent, how does that notorious (and well earning of that reputation)
get any action?
<Dajokster> you can always have 2 parts of the guild the RPing side were
if your on that certain side of the guild you are not flaged and then the PVP
side of the guild with PVP flags
<Xilanle> The risk of being attacked while busy or such Para. Afraid of
dieing to another player.
<bcuz> god the chat is moving to fast..
<Rixxen> you should
<canICula> it gets lagged, so say something important or nothing at all
<Para> depends on the dynamics of the game I guess
<Jeremias> ^^
<bcuz> please dont compare WoW to SWG... blizzard knows better then to release
some crap liek that..
<Jakeman> heh, yeah, swg sucks
<FateRaiser> Nah thats bs
<Para> if I'm doing something time consuming/important, I don't wanna have
to keep doing it over and not progressing cause some yahoo keeps killing me
<Tozzer> im going to check the post
<Dajokster> when i first played UO the dreadlords were heavy and leme tell
you their was no feeling like going out and knowing the danger of being ambushed
from anywere was a great posabilty
<FateRaiser> I did nt compare the whole game I just brought a single very
specific aspect of that game
<JustinJoseph> I don't believe that SWG is horrible, it just needs some
refinishing ( remember Anarchy Online? ) Exactly.. back to WoW ;)
<canICula> this is not #swg thanks
<canICula> pls no mention of it?
<Jakeman> how is AO doing now? it had a horrible start.
<pireth> um, he's comparing
<canICula> *sigh* wtf!
<tabrizia> okay guys get your last comments on this question in, i'm going
to be changing topics in a minute
<Maus> i like the feeling of being able to have a fighting chance in a mmorpg
<pireth> an element
<Maus> when in pvp
<bcuz> Im hungry..
<canICula> don't compare :(
<pireth> why?
<Maus> i dont like the feeling of impedning death
<FateRaiser> I know SWG makes peoples run away in terror as if it was the
word PEST but it has some inovative concepts as well
<bcuz> would make a sandwich but we have no american cheese..
<bcuz> :D
<canICula> im waiting for next topic
<tabrizia> Should there be special rewards for pvp done outside of arenas,
such as a ladder for guilds in the battleground zones?
<Dajokster> the danger element is great adds reality
<Rixxen> K this is WoW go bash and compaire in the channels for those games
<bcuz> anyways..
<FateRaiser> Definately
<pireth> no. what would be the point of arenas then?
<Grendel> Definitely there should be
<canICula> I guess it really depends on wether the restrictions allow, I
mean to have the world seperated into 2 areas, you would need to make sure there
are identical opportunities in each IF you prevented orc from travelling in human
lands and vice versa
<Kheldon> Ladder for guilds would be really cool. The CGW article mentioned
taking enemy towns and such, that could be used for rankings as well.
<Dajokster> GM events or personal duels ect
<JustinJoseph> Blizzard stated that there would be rare items in wars in
the arena Officially already
<Dragon> HI Kheld :)
<canICula> oh sorry didn't see new topic
<Kheldon> Though the ladders should be IC in my opinion.
<Mystaya_> I think you should be able to roam into enemy lands, but there
should be much risk in doing so, as for crafters etc, if they were crafting in
towns, npc guards could be there to protect them.
<bcuz> yes.. guild ladders would own..
<FateRaiser> Give acces to unique ressources (crafting ressources for instance)
to the winning side so that a guild wars would have a purpose after all
<Kheldon> Hello Dragon, welcome to the chat.
<Maus> a guild ladder, yer that'd be cool
<Rhuma> if you reward people for fighting outside of an arena, it will become
lop sided, and why go to an arena, if youll be rewarded elsewhere?
<Aethyr> I think that there should be perks.. but make them ingame. Outside
influences destroy emmersin and only promotes L337 players
<Rixxen> No I don't think that you should be restircted
<Maus> their gonna give us town taking etc
<Maus> i think theres gonna be a guild ladder
<pireth> I agree with rhuma
<JustinJoseph> I don't believe you will get a reward for winning guild wars,
except for the fact that you will probably own their land
<JustinJoseph> this is not DAoC ;)
<wolfbourne> only in arenas, rewards for other zones are the concuring of
that portion of land
<FateRaiser> There must be a point in order to fight in guild wars
<Dajokster> yes the point would be respect
<canICula> recognition.
<Grendel> having fun
<pireth> i dont want to play a mmorpg where the point is to get ranked
<Para> You can do that in EQ
<Rhuma> the point can be just a simple dislike for the guild...shouldnt
encourage hatred among gamers
<Para> no one does it
<Tozzer> i got no anwser about guild wars
<FateRaiser> Rewards for the winning side is definately something that must
be in the game if there are to be guild wars at all
<Maus> u got a guild ladder for the pvp area
<Maus> s
<Dajokster> no you canot EQ is not a pvp game
<Ether> don't confuse hatred for animosity
<Para> yes you can
<Maus> and unique rewards for arena fighting
<canICula> how does the number 1 ranked guild get any other guild to consent
to war though.
<Para> you can innitiate a guildwar
<Maus> i can deal with that difference
<Jakeman> (second time) not trying to spam, but I would appreciate your
votes in my thread. I feel strongly about my suggestion and want to try to get
it implemented, but first we need votes - http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=486113&P=1&ReplyCount=119#post486113
<Grendel> not the place for it jake
<Jakeman> And of course, vote No if you disagree
<JustinJoseph> Nice try Jake ;)
<Dajokster> you can but most guilds are after the uber mobs for the loowtz
=)
<FateRaiser> I see arena fighting more like some kind of sparring then actualy
fighting for fame
<FateRaiser> Peoples will just not fight strangers in arenas just for the
fun of it
<Jakeman> Wrong place? sorry. Where is the WoW chat?
<canICula> guilds to hunt boss mobs to get boss equiptment to use against
decked out in boss like equiptment foes (in opposing guild factions)
<Grendel> we're on topic
<Para> I like going after the ubermobs
<Tozzer> this is it
<Grendel> bring it to the boards
<FateRaiser> either make em pay to enter the arena and give a prize to the
winner or make it a training ground
<Grendel> there should be a number of arenas
<Grendel> cause i assume they'll constantly be populated
<Maus> when u talk of arena
<Maus> what u referring to, the colloseums?
<tabrizia> okay guys another minute or so and we are going to move on to
a new topic
<Maus> or the open pvp battlegrounds
<wolfbourne> max 2 areanas unless you want a bunch of empty areans
<Dajokster> thats a good idea
<Grendel> depends on the player population
<FateRaiser> An arena is a structure dedicated to PVP duels nothing else
<Rhuma> When i think of an arena, I think of that Gladiator movie.
<Dajokster> 1 per side
<Grendel> fate, not true
<Grendel> you can fight monsters too
<canICula> I feel the special rewards would require special penalties for
those who avoid or in some fashion manage to neglect player vs player conflict
outside the arenas.
<Maus> hmmm
<Mafiasco> native!
<Maus> devoted to pvp duels?
<Tozzer> so wat about the undead
<Maus> well if its the colloseum that aint true
<Dajokster> or guild wars with ladder ranking just to give it that blizzard
touch =)
<Maus> they had PVE fights there also
* Mafiasco slaps Native| around a bit with a large trout
<Maus> as well as PVP
<DrunkenTiefling> Late. Pfah. :(
<Native|> lol
<Mafiasco> pie is good
<FateRaiser> Hmmm if you can fight monsters in an arena then its more like
a clloseum
<tabrizia> here is the next question
<tabrizia> Should raid sizes be limited, for example should they limit the
number of people attempting to do an encounter?
<Grendel> No
<Tozzer> wait
<pireth> no
<hibrid`afk> no
<Tozzer> slow down
<Vaelgard> question: how much pvp is in this game?
<Jakeman> limit
<Zencraftin> no limit
<Vaelgard> and is there faction conflict?
<Maus> uhh
<Tozzer> wat topic we on
<canICula> to limit the number of people attempting to raid what?
<tabrizia> Should raid sizes be limited, for example should they limit the
number of people attempting to do an encounter?
<DrunkenTiefling> I'd say the 'limit' should depend if it's an Instanced
dungeon or not.
<Maus> depends how the netcode deals with lag
<Rhuma> tough question, ive seen what limits and no limits do to ecnounters
in EQ...cant really win
<Jole> limit the # on guild size so no zergs ;/
<canICula> guild raze another guild castle?
<Grendel> it's unfortunate if an area doesn't have enough defenders...maybe
the next time they'll be better prepared
<Aethyr> Limit, using strategy to take down a tough target is mroe reqarding
that Zerging it
<canICula> or a zone full of mobs
<DrunkenTiefling> Sinec I think some Instanced areas will have a party size
limit
<Aethyr> *rewarding
<Dajokster> actualy show skill hehe
<Tozzer> u only can have 4 people in a group
<FateRaiser> wrong 5
<pireth> four people in a group?
<Grendel> wow...that's kinda lame
<Maus> yer, 5
<DrunkenTiefling> And some Instanced Dungeons allow 1 group and that's it...so.
<canICula> a well balanced limit could encourage very large guilds to do
multiple razes simultaneously.
<FateRaiser> No its 5 peoples in group
<Maus> which is why WoW is full of unique classes
<canICula> however it could also impaire those large guilds from full force
attacks.
<Grendel> 5 people in a group, that's something I didn't expect....way too
small
<Maus> so u can work on group variation
<Tozzer> ok 5 people in a group
<Maus> and get a really kickass setup
<FateRaiser> And you can ``link`` groups like to groups of 5 to make it
10
<Rhuma> If WoW takes the same direction as EQ concerning raid mobs, then
with limits, we'll be facing guilds closing doors, and what most people experienced
on old servers is never finding a good guild
<canICula> that is jsut fine.
<pireth> yeah grendel, 5 people in a group is awful
<Maus> i dont think so
<Kheldon> Grendel is doesn't have to be if the gameplay really supports
it. And groups can be linked.
<Tozzer> but u can group with other groups
<Maus> not when the game has less than 10 classes
<canICula> I disagree strongly. 5-12 works it all depends on how the games
classes compliment each other.
<DrunkenTiefling> I'm hoping it won't be like EQ at all. :P
<Sez> hey all
<Grendel> Why bother linking 2 when you can have 1 of 10
<Para> what's wrong with 5 people?
<canICula> with more than five classes, it really makes the combination
of classes in group diverse
<Para> isn't there only like...7 classes or something?
<pireth> Limiting raid sizes would be a mistake.
<Dajokster> i think you gota release that EQ mentality here for that question
<canICula> you won't always see mirror match ups in player vs player group
vs group combat.
<Sez> did the dev chat finish?
<Grendel> This is just going to encourage people looking for 1 person in
specific
<Maus> something like that
<Tozzer> i like the camp and group wat other groups
<Maus> very unique classes, which is a good thing
<Grendel> How many times have you heard, Can i join your group? are you
a <such and such>? no. sorry can't join, we already have one.
<FateRaiser> a group of 10 would become quite chaotic , Id rather have separate
squads of 5
<DrunkenTiefling> I like how from what I read, Rogues will have a point.
:|
<Mystaya_> limiting the number of players to an encounter definitely makes
it more challenging and fun, you have to work together rather then just throw
bodies at the mob
<Tozzer> the mean ur whole guild can go on a raid
<Tozzer> in one group
<pireth> group is 10 is chaotic?
<canICula> strongly agree to 5 limit cap per group.
<FateRaiser> Classes will also ``split`` into very different specialization
<Zencraftin> yeah im kind of liking 5man group
<Sez> so whats the deal
<Tozzer> no i think it will be like 3 group
<Sez> the group cap is what?
<canICula> no more than 5 individuals per group.
<Sez> srry just got here
<pireth> why not get rid of groups
<Rhuma> seems we got off topic :
<canICula> trying to stay on topic
<pireth> limiting raid sizes is stupid idea
<canICula> it's difficult
<Maus> ye
<canICula> depends on waht they mean. Raiding what?
<Maus> when everyone answers yes
<Maus> it is abit =)
<DrunkenTiefling> I'd say limiting raid sizes is pretty smart if you ask
me. :P
<Para> I like limiting raid sizes
<Grendel> Raiding sizes...bad idea. If a group happens to be small and use
strategy, cool. They shouldn't be forced to.
<pireth> why para?
<Para> it keeps people from zerging
<DrunkenTiefling> Exactly.
<Para> ie lets gather 300 people and kill this mob cause we have no skill!
<Sez> i tink 6 is a good group size
<Sez> think*
<DrunkenTiefling> Why try to overwhelm something when you can have a challenge?
<Grendel> So what?
<Grendel> If you can muster 300 people, go for it
<Grendel> THat's awesome in itself
<Rhuma> In a nutshell you face 2 problems: 1, you limit the size of a raid...
You shut people out. 2. You have no limit, and encounters are zerged.
<FateRaiser> i dont want to see 5 peoples handle a dragon by themselves
tough
<DrunkenTiefling> However, I bet there will be certian things that require
that kind of massing.
<FateRaiser> I saw that in EQ and it pissed me off
<Para> right
<DrunkenTiefling> I think you'll get a bit of both, really.
<Grendel> If the other side doesn't have enough people to defend against
300, they should better associate themselves with friendly guilds so they can
counterattack
<pireth> exactly grendel. that's like saying to the usa, you can only bring
100,000 people to war not the 500,000 you have. it's war
<Dajokster> ya but those 5 payed their dues i am sure to be able to take
that down =)
<Kheldon> I don't think they'd put in something like linking groups if just
one group can handle everything. Would be pointless
<canICula> depending on how well zones are designed, it will always take
more than 5 people to explore thoroughly the high-end level zones, just to find
the boss mob, let alone defeat it?
<Para> are you talking about pvp?
<DrunkenTiefling> *nods at Kheldon*
<Sez> hey kheldon
<tabrizia> okay guys about another minute on this topic :)
<Rhuma> Would be great if somehow they could determine beforehand how difficult
a mob would be on how many people are there
<Maus> well like cgw article said
<Maus> the biggest dungeon will take a week for a guild to clear out alone
<Sez> yup
<Kheldon> Heya Sez, welcome to the chat
<Sez> and a guild
<pireth> rhuma, you can
<Maus> so we aint gonna have boss mob rushes tbh
<FateRaiser> Sure they did Dajokster , we were 20 peoples and that guild
of jerks came in with a group of 6 level 60s and robed us of every monster in
the entire plane , lots of complaints have been sent that night
<Sez> consisits of say 50 emmber
<labyrinth> so is this the community chat.. no organization at all?
<Sez> members*
<Sez> so
<Sez> lets say
<Sez> 50 members
<Tozzer> is there a guild
<Sez> to do the big dungeon
<Sez> in 1 week
<Rhuma> if you can, and they *will* this question is of no concern :)
<canICula> it is rather organized
<Tozzer> is there a guild
<canICula> I like the way they are handling this chat. It promotes open
idea for brainstorming with later @ logs readings
<Bain> having 300 people on a raid is stuipid, that isn't a challenge, thats
just a matter of time. 300 people swarming a mob is silly, now if they limited
the size to say 20 people, not only would you be able to oragnize them faster,
but it would be a lot more challenging
<Grendel> limiting raids. bad idea. the end ;D
<Mystaya_> I think it comes down to a division between people that want
challenging difficult encounters and those who want large zerg easily won encounters,
which generally end up in long arguements over loot anyway
<DrunkenTiefling> Bah, has it's good and bad points. :P
<Grendel> It should still be an option
<Sez> 20 is a little to small
<tabrizia> How do you feel about all dungeons being instanced? As they are
according to the information released recently in CGW.
<Riverchrist> :)
<Sez> hmm
<FateRaiser> You wont be able to find 300 peoples for a raid anyway even
if you wanted
<canICula> Instanced.
<Sez> all of them are?
<labyrinth> wow cgw.. that's still being published?
<DrunkenTiefling> Personally I'd rather fight a big nasty with a handful
of friends where we can divy up the loot without argument than 200 other people.
<wolfbourne> not all are
<Grendel> I love isnstancing
<Para> <FateRaiser> You wont be able to find 300 peoples for a raid
anyway even if you wanted
<Para> 300 was an exaturatoin
<Para> but you get my point
<Sez> lol
<Sez> true
<Grendel> You can invite people into your instanced dungeon anyway
<Grendel> I'm sure there are going to be some ffa dungeons
<Grendel> for those who want them
<Para> there have been like 180 zerg pickup raids
<Rhuma> Instancing is great, all past and present EQ players have experinced
how much it sucks to be KS'd or griefed... Its a much happier feature
<DrunkenTiefling> Probably.
<DrunkenTiefling> Yeah Rhuma. :(
<Mafiasco> pie
<Mafiasco> is
<Para> I don't know Rhuma
<Mafiasco> good
<Para> that part is definately good
<FateRaiser> Well usually when more then 80 peoples show up for a raid the
zone crashes so whats the point heh
<Xilanle> Happy feature maybe, but also lose interaction with diffirent
players. Good or bad wise
<Para> I would miss seeing all the friendly faces in the zone
<DrunkenTiefling> Not every dungeon is INstanced though. :P
<Sez> yeah
<DrunkenTiefling> So really...there's no need to worry
<Para> having nice people to call on when you need help
<Bain> intancing is fine, your in a safezone anyways, no way your gonna
be killed by players, so letting people have a whole area to themselves is just
kinda nice to do somtimes, and doesn't mean that -all- xp spots are instanced
either
<Kheldon> I don't like too much instanced. A little to prevent camping I
think would be okay. But too much is like taking a step back in MMOG evolution.
<Sez> i read that not all dungeons are instanced
<Rhuma> Yeah, everything has its flipside it seems :(
<Mafiasco> pieisgoodkkgg
<DrunkenTiefling> I have a feeling there'll be a nice balance of both.
<Grendel> Why kheldon?
<labyrinth> what does instanced mean, different version of a dungeon for
each person?
<DrunkenTiefling> Big open dungeons for when you feel like that sort of
thing, and instanced ones for when you want a more personal adventure.
<labyrinth> but essentially the same dungeon?
<Para> labyrinth it's where you get the dungeon to yourself
<Rubycat> yes
<Maus> instancing is a cool, new idea
<Xilanle> MMOG were made for player interaction Gren, making instanced dungeons
takes the interaction with strangers away again
<Maus> another example of why WoW is gonna stand out from all the crud
<labyrinth> instancing was used in the realm, its not new
<Maus> gah
<labyrinth> www.realmserver.com
<DrunkenTiefling> I personally feel instancing will work, and add a lot
of flavor.
<canICula> alone?
<Maus> who plays that ? =P
<Rhuma> Instanced dungeons would require a serverwide chat channel, it would
be the only feasible way to meet people and for grouping...
<FateRaiser> It means when you enter the dungeon that same group entered
just 1 minute ago , you wont be in the dungeon with them but rather in a axact
copy of the place
<Maus> nvr heard of it tbh
<Grendel> Xilan, people still have the option
<Para> why is that Maus, EQ already has it
<DrunkenTiefling> However, you'll still get that interaction with 'strangers
'from the other dungeons, so really there aren't any good arguments against it's
use. :P
<Maus> gah
<Flame-On> i think instancing is good i wont have to worry bout loot stealerz
<Maus> fine
<labyrinth> still, its not new =p nothing any game will do will be totally
original
<Maus> i aint played either
<Grendel> Instancing just gives players who want to solo the option to do
so. People who want the social aspect still have that option.
<Kheldon> Because you leave the massiveness. You move into smaller and smaller
groups and occasionally meet more and more but everything starts revolving around
the group rather than the community.
<canICula> interesting.
<Para> AO had it long ago
<Kheldon> At least in my opinion.
<Grendel> But that's up to each person
<Maus> thought it was another of WoW's individual features
<DrunkenTiefling> Yay, Cliques. :P
<Maus> dungeons devoted to you?
<Grendel> Shouldn't a soloer be entitled to his gameplay style?
<Maus> or your party/
<Maus> u sure?
<DrunkenTiefling> Cliques will develop no matter what, sadly, human nature.
>.<
<canICula> how would you prevent hunting an enemy guild inside "your"
domain? I guess you couldn't disturb them from instnaced dungeoning.
<Maus> sounds abit complex for eq tb.h.
<Para> I'm sure Maus
<Grendel> if there are 10,000 people you're not going to know them all
<Para> 1 group dungeons
<Para> linear
<labyrinth> what i hate about every online game is that i can't solo through
it
<Para> no respawns
<Grendel> you're invariably going to form your own group of friends
<Para> your forced to crawl them
<Grendel> And you can still hunt with them should you choose to
<labyrinth> you might say, why play a mmo if you don't want to group.. well,
there's interaction with the economy, etc
<DrunkenTiefling> Yep Grendel. And that's the way it always will be. Everyone
ends up with their circles that they associate within.
<Grendel> And that's not a bad thing
<tabrizia> okay guys another minute or so and we'll be moving on
<Grendel> k
<labyrinth> let me be a self sufficient player in your game and i will play
it
<Para> I think Soloing should be possible for all classes really
<Grendel> I'll reiterate: instancing is a good idea because it allows people
who want to solo the option to do so, whlie still allowing groups the opportunity
to hunt together
<Para> I think the rewards for grouping should be much better tho
<DrunkenTiefling> THat's one thing I like, you don't have to group. So if
you're feeling a leeeeeettle anti-social one day, you can go solo.
<FateRaiser> I think the same as long as character advancement is concerned
<Rhuma> I wonder how instancing will be handled by the roleplayers...seems
very...unroleplayable
<Rubycat> According to the magazine CGW. OUtside = solo
<Rubycat> Inside = groups
<Grendel> Thinking a mmorpg will turn into a virtual metropolis of social
interraction and interdependency is kind of far fetched
<deadorc|TFT> Hi :P
<DrunkenTiefling> Instancing is not only good for solo, but small groups.
As it'd almost be like a nice little personalized dungeon for your party.
<Kheldon> Soloing is great, I solo a lot. But closing the gameworld around
is so that I can't meet people by chance seems more like a limitation to me than
a freedom.
<tabrizia> okay the next question is: What are your feelings about undead
joining the horde?
<Grendel> BOOO! kick them out
<Rhuma> Silly
<Rubycat> doesnt bother me
* Maus shrugs
<Maus> theyve got story behind it
<DrunkenTiefling> I have my gripes...
<Maus> so doesnt matter tbh =P
<canICula> I am really, really dissappointed that the orcish horde has been
duped yet again. It really makes them look stupid.
<DrunkenTiefling> I think Thrall is too much of a big softy. :(
<deadorc> who's the special guest? :P
<TuBoy> I cant wait to see the story behind it actually.
<JustinJoseph> Depends on the story we do not know
<Rhuma> It wouldn't be so bad if, you know...It was explained to us
<Sez> hmm
<Sez> id say its not that big a deal
<DrunkenTiefling> Yeah, the duping bit didn't sit well with me. :P
<Rubycat> The undead look pretty cool though ^_^
<JustinJoseph> I mean... Blizzard created WarCraft , they create the story,
it is in their right to make the story follow their direction
<FateRaiser> What thrall a softy? He nbever declines a fight
<Grendel> I know they have a story, but it seems to go against everything
Thrall's horde stands for. They're trying to reclaim their old noble identities,
and the forsaken are going to unleash a genocidal plague...
<DrunkenTiefling> But overall...don't really mind too much.
<Sez> but personall id liek to see a third faction
<Sez> and more races
<DrunkenTiefling> Neutral, Goblins! ^^
<canICula> I liked the way guldan betrayed the horde and it was such a harmful
blow because it was dishonerable, contrary to the greenskins nature. now they
are just mesmerized and agree to ally with the forsaken? no good for me. Makes
me want to play a tauren or *cries* join the human coalition.
<DrunkenTiefling> Anyway...
<Luden> are they joining the horde to just balance them out compared to
the other sides?
<wolfbourne> too early to really say either way till the story is told
<Kheldon> It bothers me a little because it opens for more questions than
it answers. It seems drastic. Very drastic. I'll wait until I know the story before
I call it silly or some such. But as I said..it seems very very drastic.
<Rubycat> People said the same things about NE being Alliance
<canICula> strongly agree with kheldon
<DrunkenTiefling> I'm betting Sylvanus went to Thrall, it was discussed
for a long time, and Thrall grudgingly agreed to an 'alliance' of sorts, if anything,
to end hostilities. The Tauren and Trolls trust Thrall, so they probably just
went along with it.
<DrunkenTiefling> Agreed, Kheldon
<Klauz> O_o
<canICula> what happened to the alliance between orcs and humans though?
What was that, temporary?
<Rhuma> I think if they would have put ogres on the horde side instead of
the undead, the community would be much happier and could understand
<Xilanle> Well in discription it said they "duped" them into letting
them into the hord
<DrunkenTiefling> The NE have very good reasons to side up with the Alliance,
however...the Horde with Undead...eh.
<Grendel> probably right there Drunken
<DrunkenTiefling> And the NE aren't with the Alliance as a whole, but Jaina
Proudmoore's Alliance, those still on Kalimdor, that's really it.
<Kheldon> War 3 spend a great deal of time about how noble the Orcs and
Tauren are..and then they ally with wraiths and a demon, the bery powers they
were fighting. Suddenly Warlocks are in even though Orcs have all the reasons
in the world to tear a warlock apart on sight.
<Grendel> yeah, i was kinda surprised by that
<Kheldon> The solution can't be too simple. Then it becomes just silly.
<canICula> exactly. Because of warlocks, the orcs were cast into slavery.
<tabrizia> okay guys I'm going to be moving on again to a new question in
a minute or two
<wolfbourne> we know too little about anything to really discuss factions...
next question
<DrunkenTiefling> Now that REALLY bugged me, Kheldon, the inclusion of Warlocks
in Orcs
<FateRaiser> I think Undead race will apeal to the masses of Dark elf characters
made in EQ.
<Rubycat> then same can be said about Undead, they arent horde as a whole,
just part of Sylvanis forsaken ^_^
<DrunkenTiefling> Doomhammer, Thrall, and Durotan ALL fought to get rid
of the Warlocks in the Horde.
<hibrid`afk> i am so going to make a mage
<Xilanle> Or iksar players, fate ;)
<tabrizia> our next question is: Should there be specialy servers? Why or
why not?
<Grendel> huh?
<DrunkenTiefling> Yes, RP server. ^^
<labyrinth> pvp servers
<Grendel> oh
<canICula> Player vs Player opposed to.. ?
<leth|afk> yes, there should be PvP servers
<Grendel> yeah
<Tal> specialy servers? rofl
<Grendel> there should be
<Grendel> if you mean pvp/rp
<Bain> pvp, rp, co-op
<DrunkenTiefling> PvP, RP, etc etc, it's good policy to give people options.
<Grendel> why not let people play where they'll be happy
<wolfbourne> yes 3 pvp,norm,rpg
<canICula> It sort of divides the team on how the game progresses as a whole.
<Grendel> Amen Drunk
<deadorc> Tabrizia, yes... a gnome only server... :D cause gnomes rule!
and they need to be regulated to one server only :P
<Klauz> Bain - just like DAoC, heh.
<Dajokster> I for one dont RP but it gives the game a certain I dont know
MOJO to the game hehe
<canICula> You'll find eventually you have half the team working on this
server, half the team working on that server.
<Grendel> let people play where they'll be most happy
<ioneye> holy shit
<ioneye> wow chat??
<tabrizia> i'm join the gnome only server, deadorc :)
<FateRaiser> No specialty Servers, I think it puts too much attention into
1 very specific type of server and lets the other ones behind
<deadorc> :D
<Dajokster> i agree fate
<Klauz> Dajokster - it's something to do once you've done everything. RP'ing
is fun as hell once ya try it. :)
<FateRaiser> The DEVs should concentrate in balancing the game as is not
for every different type of server there would be
<Rhuma> Well, I never liked the idea of specialty servers, since the community
is always the same and the choice of fighting/roleplaying with some of the best
isnt there, you have to give up your character and goto that server
<Dajokster> and its always kool to see people RP even tho i dont do it
<Ohlsson> ONE SERVER ONLY END OF DISC
<canICula> If anything the specialty servers should be reserved for guilds
opposed to individuals seeking to form guilds. Like, guilds with a prior experience
in this genre, opposed to new commers.
<Para> Why Can?
<deadorc> we need a age 13-15 B.net Switchover server... so they can be
with there own breathen... and not spread the 'kewld00d' speak :P
<Rubycat> Yeah but how many servers you think they will need for this game?
<wolfbourne> one server lol
<canICula> because the new commers get slaughtered.
<Para> I've learned a lot from veterans
<DrunkenTiefling> Lol Deadorc
<DrunkenTiefling> Nice. ;)
<qatol> more than AC2!
<Rhuma> The reason oldschool UO was so great, was you had every type of
player onyour server
<FateRaiser> 1 Server is the way to go IMO
<Para> oh more pvp
<Rubycat> no
<Grendel> well they have to learn some time on a pvp server
<wolfbourne> 500,000 people on one server
<Grendel> i agree it's terrible starting on one
<wolfbourne> lol
<Dajokster> yup
<Grendel> but you really do have to start there
<Bain> thats just silly
<Kheldon> I don't believe in special servers. Not PvP ones specially. And
because I don't want to be a hypocrat, RP servers are included in the ones I don't
want. A game development should be able to create a working PvP system that works.
With specific rules and consequenses. Making servers is the easy way out in an
industry where I want to see a lot more innovatin-.
<Kheldon> *innovation
<FateRaiser> Nah I hate duplucate worlds of each other
<Dajokster> you had all kinds scamers,RPers,killers,theifs you name it
<Para> if they're going to incorporate pvp, I'd rather have pvp servers
myself
<Atma> the plane of innovation has robots in it
<canICula> strongly agreed with Kheldon again.
<Atma> robots are scary to me
<Atma> i hope wow doesnt have robots
<Klauz> Well, it will be harder to find a good bunch to RP with.
<Para> so I can have my pve
* Tal agrees with Kheldon
<DrunkenTiefling> FAir enough, Kheldon...Honestly, I like the idea of an
RP server, HOWEVER if you can make a game where all circles are hapyp on a single
server type, you succeed.
<FateRaiser> And it even confuses new players into picking the wrong server
and then they realized their friends picked another and they have to start anew
<DrunkenTiefling> Andi f you can do that, you've made a better game.
<Klauz> DrunkenTiefling - yep. Very true.
<Grendel> well, people should talk with their friends then ;)
<Rubycat> heh
<monklette> invent a form of pvp where you don't have to deal with grief
pkers, and maybe I'd like it
<FateRaiser> IMO if BLizz makes a RP server all the griefers will go on
that server guess why...
<deadorc> hi monklette :p
<pireth> hehe
<pireth> grief pkers is part of the game
<monklette> hi ... pest?
<Bain> grief WHERE? in the pvp zones? lol
<Grendel> whenever there's pk there are bound to be grief players
<deadorc> yup
<deadorc> <- pest
<C_Talanithus_UOLS> Hey everyone, I am working on a MMORPG Concept and would
love some feedback. If you have read previous versions, I have added several pages
worth of new material, including some really unique ideas on Dynamic Spawns, Frontier
Player Housing, and other nifty stuff. If you have a few spare minutes, and are
willing to give it a read, please check it out and at:
<C_Talanithus_UOLS> http://taliet.uols.net
<C_Talanithus_UOLS> Then we can discuss the idea in #TalietMMORPG, so we
don't overburden the channel here.
<Klauz> Fate - huh? Why would anybody who doesn't like RP'ing play on a
RP server?
<ioneye> what time is the WOW chat?
<FateRaiser> there are so many ways of griefing
<canICula> +b
<Klauz> Shut up C_Talanithus_UOLS.
<Klauz> Fate - huh? Why would anybody who doesn't like RP'ing play on a
RP server?
<FateRaiser> itys not just taking phisical actions Vs another player
<canICula> +b C_Talanithus_UOLS
<ioneye> what time is the WOW chat?
<Luden> 2 hours from now
<Rubycat> its going on now
<Elbereth> lol
<Dajokster> to kill RPers
<Klauz> ioneye - what do you think we're doing? Picking our noses?
<Bain> why would you think for a second that anyone will be able to grief
in this game? unless theres a pvp server its up to YOU to decide if you want to
be in a pvp zone
<FateRaiser> It could be something as simple as killing all the newbie creeps
in an area and preventing noobs from advancing
<Rubycat> lol
<ioneye> no clue
<Dajokster> were does the lion go hunt =)
<ioneye> just asked what time WOW chat was
<ioneye> only 140 ppl here
<tabrizia> almost over :)
<Klauz> Only 140?
<Klauz> "Only"?
<ioneye> um yes
<Grendel> you're not gonna stop someone from doing that though Fate
<Rubycat> LOL
<deadorc> Gnome vs World server.. a server dominated by gnomes... that would
bring lots of customers and fans!
<tabrizia> okay guys I'm going to move on in another minute to a new topic
<ioneye> swg had 1000+, wtf
<Grendel> k
<ES|Pseudo> lol deadorc
<ioneye> OH
<ioneye> community chat
<Dajokster> i am sure alot of people dont know this is going on
<ioneye> screw this lol
<tabrizia> our next question is; Do you think Blizzard is being to secrative?
Or is that a good thing? Do you think WoW could have had better community relations
and better community support?
<Klauz> <grin> Thanks tabrizia.
<tabrizia> no problem
<wolfbourne> next question
<Grendel> they need a better site...imo
<Luden> they shouldnt of announced it so early
<Dajokster> I think their doing fine but more updates would be nice
<Kheldon> *agrees with luden'
<canICula> Don't pay any mind tot he community. The internet is populated
by pre puberty reaching punks, and so, keeping things secret is okay.
<Grendel> they shouldn't announce something unless they have a little info
behind it
<FateRaiser> One big thing that I noticed on the WoW forums is the lack
of moderators , that certainly aint helping the comunity for the game...
<ES|Pseudo> I think they learned from WC 3. If you dump a whole lot of info
and get the masses excited, the delays hurt even more
* Luden points at SWG
<Grendel> don't need to reveal the entire game
<Kheldon> They announced it too early was was unable to upport the community
that inevitably was created around the gae.
<deadorc> i think that its a good thing, cause if people feel the game is
over-hyped expectations could make them feel cheated if they read info wrong,
i think its perfect the way it is, no info or only little bits of it for stuff
that accually works is fine, overhype = bad
<Grendel> just that if you announce something, explain it
<Kheldon> *game
<bcuz> I still cant believe they put undead in
<bcuz> thats just nuts..
<canICula> the community is selfish. Enough said.
<FateRaiser> I dont care how secretive they are about the game it will just
make peoples less prompt to be disapointed when the game come sout
<bcuz> ...
<Dajokster> thats also true
<Lavacas> they will probably change factions in an expan though bcuz
<Lavacas> even on the site it makes you think they change factions
<bcuz> yah.. in the end its better when they dont relase a whole buncha
info
* deadorc ponders if the blizzard ninjas are waiting to strike :p
<bcuz> like how can you be disapointed wiht HL2?
<Lavacas> or they wont stay "loyal"
<bcuz> they kept it under wraps for 90% of the devlopemnt..
<wolfbourne> part of the game is figuring it out they cant tell us everything
it ruins the plot and discovery
<bcuz> therefore all we have seen is some cool physics and kick ass graffics
<bcuz> know what i mena?
<Kheldon> It's only recently that they've started things like the Friday
Screenshot. And it's only very recently that they are looking for a community
manager for the game. Instead of letting the Fansite manager handle it
<bcuz> how can you be disapointed..
<bcuz> however whne you show all your cards .. well..
<Rhuma> When you show your cards, SoE ganks your cards and runs
<Kheldon> And communit relations and support does not necessarily mean revealing
evertyhing about the game.
<wolfbourne> lol
<tabrizia> okay guys I'll be putting up our last question in just a minute
<Grendel> last question already?!
<Grendel> :(
<deadorc> $ony will possibly be wiped out by a Blizzard soon O_o (hoping
anyway)
<Lavacas> aww..
<Dhaemonicus|Jeryvn> lol
<tabrizia> And for our last discussion question for the night: Should player
crafted items be better than commonly dropped items? Why or Why not?
<Elbereth> Almost time to play some D2 then ;)
<canICula> tough one
<Luden> at least as good
<FateRaiser> Definmately
<Grendel> Hmm
<Luden> otherwise no point
<bcuz> <Rhuma> When you show your cards, SoE ganks your cards and
runs
<bcuz> rofl
<Grendel> They should be cloes, but not as good
<Grendel> close*
<Grendel> well
<Grendel> ok i misread
<Grendel> they should be better than commonly dropped items
<Kheldon> At least as good.
<Grendel> but not better than rare items
<Dajokster> hmm if not beter def same
<FateRaiser> In fact I think that monsters should NOT drop any magical items
at all , rather drop the raw materials in order to craft them
<bcuz> what should be gren?
<Creslin|awake> definitly not, joe the smith shouldnt make better stuff
than bob the ancient dragon of doom has in his hoard
<bcuz> crafted items?
<Lavacas> yeah they should...if you spend your points to craft the items..i
feel you should have a better item
<Rhuma> With the way Blizzard set it up, Yes...Player Crafted items should
be better than commonly dropped items, simply because they will be rarer, and
made out of rare items, and only made in rare places
<Kheldon> But that would also require crafting to be it's own playstyle
and not a side gig.
<Elbereth> agrees with Grendel
<Sez> crafted ites should be better
<Aethyr> Better than average drops... but nat nearly as good as rare drops
<Sez> items*
<Dragon> i have the greatest stuff in my hoard
<monklette> just don't make me *have* to craft stuff in order to access
large parts of the game!
<Lavacas> true..rare drops should be better
<deadorc> Tabrizia, YES i think that gnomes should beable to make Mech Suits,
Spyplanes and Robotic parts... (ie Gnomicons, Transformers) merging into a huge
bald Robocop like gnome....
<Rhuma> Im so confident in my answer, I dare say frostmourne should be player
craftable
<Grendel> Crafted items: Better than common drops, require resources to
make. Rare drops: Better than crafted items, a lot harder to find.
<bcuz> I think that expert crafters shoudl be able to add on to rare items
and stuff
<bcuz> that would own..
<FateRaiser> And there is nothing more stupid then looting 300 gold pieces
off a bears carcass
<Lavacas> but common drops..it should be
<tabrizia> anyone get the feeling deadorc likes gnomes?
<Sez> actually, we havent heard much at all about WoW crafting
<FateRaiser> lol rhuma
<Dajokster> keep in mind i read it depends were the item will be crafted
the more risk the beter the item crafted =)
<qatol> lol yes /agree FateR
<Lavacas> drops should fit the monster that dropped it
<canICula> the common crafted items be equal to commonly dropped items.
Where never should player crafted items, even the rarest of crafts, unless say,
you manage to take dragon scales from a dragon, and some how after extreme patience
are able to forge dragonscale armor of some type. Anyway, almost never should
player crafted items exceed the rarities of that rarely spawning item on that
hard to find, hard to kill mob, with
<wolfbourne> they should be valuable in different ways drops should give
you stats and dmg type of things, where crafted could give you abilitys like spells,
procs.
<Lavacas> lol..i dont think deadorc likes gnomes at all
<deadorc> Gnomicons... Transform!
<deadorc> dude
<Lavacas> even though..gnomes are great ^_^
<deadorc> 5 or 6 gnomes merging to make a huge cyborg gnome would own
<Sez> LOL
<Rubycat> yeah it would be about 3 feet tall
<deadorc> hense gnomicons
<Lavacas> specially if they crafted the sword they used :P
<canICula> it's like you find a dragona t the end of a tough zone, y ou
manage to kill it, you get a CHANCE to salvage something from the corpse like
scales to craft very decent armor better then anything else in the zone besides
the items that drop here and there, and ofcourse, besides the items that drop
from the actual boss mob dragon.
<Dajokster> or make it like extreemly imposable to get the skill to craft
items ect
<qatol> I don't want cyborgs in my fantasy game
<Grendel> i agree can
<qatol> save the cyborgs for sci-fi =/
<Rhuma> If player crafted items arent better than monster drops, who made
the monster drops? This is an RPG, a massive one. Frostmourne was created by Nerzhul,
and if a dedicated very skilled dwarf had say, nerzhuls gauntlet or whatever to
imbue into a sword, he too should be able to make frostmourne
<Luden> if crafting becomes an integral part of the economy, they have to
make it easier to sell/buy
<canICula> but I don't think crafted items should > monster dropped items
although it does depend
<bcuz> hmm
<bcuz> how are skills gonna work?
<Grendel> there should be a ratio between difficulty in crafting and effectiveness
<bcuz> are we gonna have skill books like d1?
<Sez> yup
<bcuz> or what?
<Para> make the monster drops items to craft uber items
<Para> it's simple
<canICula> strongly disagree with rhuma.
<Lavacas> if crafted items arent better...whats the point of crafting them..
<Lavacas> ?
<Dajokster> thats a thought para
<Kheldon> crafting items that are -very- good should also take a lot of
time and deication. Like getting those scales from a dragon, herbs, ore...ect.
IT'd also add to the player economy if for example I paid a guild to get me those
scales and also add to the atmosphere of the world we are supoposed to be playing
in.
<FateRaiser> Imo dont make Bears drop loads of gold , thats plain stupid.
Instead make players skin the hide and sell it to tailors in town in order to
make monney
<canICula> frostmourne very specific item, used to possess arthas, and inevitably
let the lich possess the death knight.
<Para> IE you kill a dragon, you get a rare piece of ore to craft a good
sword
<Sez> kheldon: yup
<Kheldon> Seeing the local weaponsmith run off to kill a dragon for his
next project takes away from that, imo :P
<canICula> no stinky smelly midget dwarf should be embowed with that type
of power, I don't care whos gloves hes wearing :)
<bcuz> btw, any word on beta?
<Sez> nope
<JustinJoseph> It was Nice meeting you all, great conversation :) ( On behalf
of MMORPG.COM )
<Sez> Q4
<JustinJoseph> thank you! :)
<deadorc> ok ok instead of cyborgs.... hows this.... medieval parts that
cling together...
<Lavacas> its coming sometime
<Dajokster> or needing to be escorted deep into the forges of hell to craft
insaine items
<bcuz> Q4?
<tabrizia> okay guys one more minutes on this :)
<Sez> bye justin
<bcuz> q4 2003?
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