[00:01] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> /topic #worldofwarcraft
[00:01] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> *** World of Warcraft Community Chat in progress!***
[00:01] <Dariuas> Beautiful
[00:01] * Dariuas changes topic to '*** World of Warcraft Community Chat in progress!***'
[00:01] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Greetings and thank you for attending tonight's World of Warcraft Community Chat. I will be your moderator for this evening.
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Basically what we will be doing is posting a topic for you all to discuss. After we post each topic we will unmoderate the
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> chat and give you 10 to 15 minutes to discuss it. Please stay on topic, normal channel rules apply.
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> The log of this chat will later be posted on http://wow.stratics.com so be sure to tell your friends if they missed it.
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay here goes the first topic
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 1. How do you feel about the introducing of the Gnome race in the game?
[00:03] * Dariuas sets mode: -m
[00:03] <Valconeye> Love it
[00:03] <Shinokk> Cool
[00:03] <Pepe> could care less
[00:03] <Drew|> Must Punt Gnomes.
[00:03] <Zoranis> Own =D
[00:03] <E_Ragnarok> :E
[00:03] <VicVega> gnomes rule
[00:03] <Jaenos> Lame.
[00:03] <Talrias> Hello :)
[00:03] <B_afraid> I felt it necessary
[00:03] <Oaksheart> kawaii kekekeke
[00:03] <Hignus> would rather have elfs
[00:03] <Kubien> don't see why not
[00:03] <NeoGuybrush> I like it! Its good to see a race that isnt purely about attacking
[00:03] <visible> YES GNOMES
[00:03] <Screams> i hate gnomes
[00:03] <NekkeN> wohoo
[00:03] <Xantric> be cool
[00:03] <Wolfen> They're okay
[00:03] <Vinven> I think its an interesting race, good possibilities
[00:03] <SoCxRhijord> It was unexpected
[00:03] <Aurelius> Well, gnomes are kinda weak, but it adds variety
[00:03] <Derek> they are cute
[00:03] <Count-Isaac> Nothing wrong with gmonish people
[00:03] <TraHPhiC_Treehugger> I'm cool with it
[00:03] <zdlr> hey Talrias
[00:03] <adonys> don'tcare
[00:03] <Samus> Love gnomes! So cute!
[00:03] <Shinokk> I was worried. Bu the design was cool
[00:03] <Hignus> are there any DEVS in here or just us
[00:03] <Mantus{TR}> That's like a 2 minute topic. Like the idea
[00:03] <Maus> shin kickers own
[00:03] <krekin> Love the gnomes.
[00:03] <Dariuas> I wana be a gnome!
[00:03] <Talrias> ah hi zdlr!
[00:03] <visible> I only play a gnome if i get to ride other gnomes as my steed.
[00:03] <NeoGuybrush> Gnomes get TANKS. thats like...cool
[00:03] <B_afraid> But my Taurens gonna OWN them...dont see how they can compete
[00:03] <TraHPhiC_Treehugger> good to know about their history and connection to WC2
[00:03] <klyss> I like it, as it's not as damn cliche as most fantasy game races
[00:03] <visible> that will rock
[00:03] <Trige> this is dumb rofl
[00:03] <Ether> gnomes r k3w1
[00:03] <TehSuq> I will be a Gnome. I'm absolutely thrilled they've got 'em. I love to be a cute-and-cuddly race; it makes it that much more humiliating for the enemy when I kill them. >=)
[00:03] <RAL> this is gonna turn in to a spam fest:P
[00:03] <Aurelius> im not gonna play as one
[00:03] <speed898> pigtails on the female gnomes look funny
[00:03] <visible> I only play a gnome if i get to ride other gnomes as my steed.
[00:03] <Screams> this game already is starting to look retarded
[00:03] <Pepe> yeah really, any blizzard representativs here?
[00:03] <Kubien> it's nice to have a short race, short races are a lot of fun to play perspective wise.
[00:03] <Vinven> plus if we get bored we can punt the gnome
[00:03] <B_afraid> O my god...so much chatter!
[00:03] <Samus> Plus, what a great story idea, all of them having lost their homes. Makes for an interesting future.
[00:03] <klyss> I mean, who needs more bloomin six foot tall blonde elves with ninja archer skill :P
[00:03] <Wedge> as long as gnomes get fishing rods and hats..
[00:03] <Aurelius> im out, this sucks, lol
[00:03] <Trige> CAN WE PLZ BE TROLLZ
[00:03] <thenewrick> Every game needs a super shorty meek race, gnomes are just a perfect example of this in a fantasy setting. aka gnomes rule
[00:03] <Oaksheart> do male gnomes look like David the gnome
[00:03] <NeoGuybrush> Gnomes get tanks and sniper rifles. How could they not be so damn cool? Plus they can help dwarves, make a killing making items and generally rock
[00:03] <Wolfen> I might play a gnome rogue
[00:03] <Screams> TROLLZ LOLZ
[00:03] <Jawnee> Personally I think they did a fantastic job. Smaller than EQ gnomes from the looks of em... I dunno makes for a very unique race being that tiny.
[00:03] <Valconeye> Gnomes are a perfect edition, they have been out of the story for some time, Its about time the get some attention!
[00:03] <Neo-Bahamut> What's an MMORPG without Gnomes:P
[00:04] <Screams> LOLZ TROLLSZ
[00:04] <Errorist> goblins would have been cooler imo, but oh well
[00:04] <Trige> LOLZ
[00:04] <shoX> well they're cute and charming ;)
[00:04] <Screams> ROFL
[00:04] <Trige> TROLLZZZZZZZZ
[00:04] <Chichis> i eat gnomes
[00:04] <Cynian> They're going to be the least played race in WoW, but who else were you expecting? Pandaren's? Please. At least with Gnomes we get the neat story of gnomeragan.
[00:04] <MadHatter|work> I think it's LAME that you purposely misleaded WoW Fans by saying there would be DEVELOPERS HERE TONIGHT! F U I'm out
[00:04] <B_afraid> id play a gnome magic class if anything
[00:04] <Screams> TROLLZ WOULD OWNZ
[00:04] <Screams> LOLZ
[00:04] <SoCxRhijord> Gnomes will probably be most dependent on their gear.
[00:04] <Screams> LOLZ
[00:04] <Ether> gnomes r binge drinkers
[00:04] <Jaenos> They were made obsolete in Warcraft III by making the Dwarven race a technological power. They very history of the gnomes sounds like an April Fools joke. There were better races to add and find the Gnome inclusion weak and lazy on Blizzard's part.
[00:04] <visible> hahahahha this chat is insane
[00:04] <Trige> TROLLZ OWNZ ALLZ
[00:04] <Hellscream|work> lol
[00:04] <E_Ragnarok> ...
[00:04] <Vinven> as long as theres no hairy footed halflings, gnomes are fine
[00:04] <Screams> omgz stop using capz lolz!!
[00:04] <Radlin-SH-> Gnomes were a perfect addition to the Alliance. Blizzard needed a race that would be viable in both engineering and magic for the Alliance. Gnomes kill two birds with one stone. That, and I love the animation. SOmewhat like TaruTaru from FFXI, but without the little black dot noses
[00:04] <shoX> can we eat a gnome?
[00:04] <Bink|Randy> lolirl
[00:04] <Screams> rofllflf
[00:04] <jumbojack> FoH 4 LYFE!
[00:04] <Samus> The gnomes are beautifully designed.
[00:04] <Screams> oh my
[00:04] <Screams> roleplayers suck.
[00:04] <Casi|UDL> turn the morons off =/
[00:04] <Keystone> hah jumo(
[00:05] <Kheldon> I think they look too....cute :P
[00:05] <B_afraid> can we play gnome soccer with my Brazillian Tauren team?
[00:05] <Trige> TROLLZ ROXORZ
[00:05] <jumbojack> FoH 4 LYFE!1!one!
[00:05] <NeoGuybrush> gnomes are basically drinking buddies and inventor slaves to the dwarves. but thats still good.
[00:05] <Screams> lolz!!!!!!!!!!!
[00:05] <Count-Isaac> It seems unfair that the Alliance has both the tiny races now
[00:05] <Radlin-SH-> I love the anime-ish look they gave to them
[00:05] <Pepe> can we talk about what's really important: PVP
[00:05] <TehSuq> I just can't figure out one thing: is the "G" silent in Gnome, so it sounds like the city in Alaska? Or is it actually pronounced? If so, just sotto voce, or is it a real letter to be pronounced with pride and honor?
[00:05] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Please stay on topic those of you that are diverting from it.
[00:05] <zdlr> I agree Pepe
[00:05] <Radlin-SH-> I don't really think size will be a major factor in the game
[00:05] <jumbojack> i want to pk teh noobz
[00:05] <Screams> pvp
[00:05] <Screams> yes
[00:05] <Bink|Randy> this chat is ridiculous
[00:05] <NeoGuybrush> the "g" is not pronounced
[00:05] <thenewrick> Dwarves are short and wide, I wouldnt call them a tiny race. They are about as wide as a Tauren I think?
[00:05] <Testaoq> hey sexy
[00:05] <Drew|> I want to PK koreans
[00:05] <Kubien> Pronounced nome
[00:05] <shoX> how do you know that after not seeying them moving around the bushes ? too little info about gnomes
[00:05] <Radlin-SH-> The fact that they are small does NOT mean Tauren can punt them
[00:05] <Screams> like, nomes.
[00:05] <Pepe> i'M WITH dREW
[00:05] <B_afraid> well if gnomes have alot of intelligence, their magic will kick ass
[00:05] <jumbojack> damn koreans
[00:05] <Screams> gah-nomes
[00:05] <zdlr> So what type of pvp do you wat to see?
[00:05] <NekkeN> I think you should add Homosexual Jackrabbits
[00:05] <Pepe> all out PVP
[00:05] <Screams> like
[00:05] <Screams> rvr pvp
[00:05] <SoCxRhijord> The natural characteristic of gnomes to be small is what leads me to beleive they will be more dependent on equipment rather than an Orc.
[00:05] <Vinven> its not G nome, just nome
[00:05] <Derek> i think we can remoderate as there is nothing really useful now heh
[00:05] <Trige> WUZUP DAWGZ
[00:05] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:06] <Jawnee> Please stay on topic guys...
[00:06] <Kheldon> I'd like to know the backstory for Gnomes going Warlokish though
[00:06] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 2. With the recent revealing of the tradeskills and how they work, what do you think about the fact that there is no failure chance when creating an item
[00:06] <Jawnee> Yes warlock doesnt make a lot of sense to me either Kheldon
[00:06] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:06] <Screams> hay trige!!!
[00:06] <B_afraid> I think its a gerat idea, alleviates frustrarion
[00:06] <SoCxRhijord> That's a great thing
[00:06] <Wolfen> I love it!
[00:06] <Kheldon> I don't like it.
[00:06] <Oaksheart> What do you get when you fail?
[00:06] <E_Ragnarok> lol
[00:06] <ariqs> I think it depends on how it is implemented, and we won't know that until we play the game
[00:06] <][nfrared> good idea
[00:06] <visible> yeah dont mind it
[00:06] <Bink|Randy> it's a horrible idea
[00:06] <majeo> Such a system is friendlier to the weekend warrior.
[00:06] <E_Ragnarok> its kinda stupid
[00:07] <Kubien> I love it
[00:07] <Drew|> I don't like it -t akes away the realism.
[00:07] <TraHPhiC_Treehugger> I like it
[00:07] <Smeg> its great, control it through drop rates, not failure rates.
[00:07] <E_Ragnarok> everyone will have uberquality items
[00:07] <Karunel> Items will flood the market if they always suceed. At the same time, it's easier and funnier for players
[00:07] <AgentXer0> scroll
[00:07] <visible> it adds cartoon fun
[00:07] <Jawnee> Though gnomes aren't exactly known for finding out all the details about something before they delve into it apparently.
[00:07] <AgentXer0> scroll
[00:07] <Screams> sounds retarded then
[00:07] <Pepe> tradeskills = teh sux
[00:07] <Shinokk> I dont like the recipe thing
[00:07] <Screams> G Nomes
[00:07] <shoX> Its totally ok , decreases frustration , as was said
[00:07] <Kheldon> Why not make PvEing that way? No way you can lose against a mob you attacked.
[00:07] <E_Ragnarok> and there wont be a chance to fail at making em
[00:07] <Ally> I don't like it.
[00:07] <et2112> its fine, crafting sucks anyway
[00:07] <Derid> Yeah people are going to make it anyway if they can, why not save em time?
www.WoWLands.com)
[00:07] <jumbojack> FoH will roxor the koreans in pvp, oso 1337
[00:07] <Screams> hey ya, by outkast
[00:07] <Valconeye> all i have to say, if there is no failure, then the material should be harder to get than normal
[00:07] <SoCxRhijord> There is no reason to give the player the ability to make the item if they can fail it.
[00:07] <Zoranis> better then eq's =p
[00:07] <B_afraid> o my god...how can you make heads ot tails of thid crap...
[00:07] <TehSuq> Failure isn't necessary to keep tradeskills viable; however, I REALLY want to know if there is a separate pool for skill points. I'd hate to have to nerf my main or start an alt just to do some crafting.
[00:07] <Samus> There are better ways not to flood the market, Karunel. Like, make the materials more difficult to find.
[00:07] <Vinven> heh not sure really, used to endlessly clicking and failing for tradeskills, but to know that after all your hard work on an item and spending lots of coin that it wont fail, can be a blessing
[00:07] <fiz> I like it better than SWG. Hopefully, the trade classes will not reward grinding/milling to Master, then making stuff.
[00:07] <Drew|> Can we craft Koreans?
[00:07] <thenewrick> No failure is good, as long as its not a tedius process getting materials and skill. Gives player more insentive to craft when they know they cant fail
[00:07] <Tamil> Krieger
[00:07] <Screams> stop spamming
[00:07] <Trige> TROLLZ
[00:07] <Screams> lolz!
[00:07] <Bink|Randy> only noobs do tradeskills ne wayz
[00:07] <Neo-Bahamut> I like it. It makes the focus be on adventuring to get the components instead of grinding
[00:07] <Jawnee> No failure saves players time... BUT its not very realistic and I'm worried about item overflow
[00:07] <adonys> huh?!! no failures?
[00:07] <B_afraid> ban trige please...hes troll obsessed
[00:07] <Casi|UDL> Just talk and tell me what I don't know, and save me from the moronic drivel pls
[00:07] * Pepe nods to Randy
[00:07] <shoX> but I dont want that game to pretend 'everything is easy'
[00:07] <Guest84734> wow is everyone in the world in this
[00:07] <Karunel> Samus, but materials at least some are supossed to be common
[00:07] <Screams> i don't think
[00:07] <Hignus> I think materials will be rare
[00:08] <Karunel> I mean wood is gonna be something rare?
[00:08] <Karunel> :p
[00:08] <Tetrian> heya :D
[00:08] <Derek> is it harder to learn a formula then ? I think that if its really hard to learn then its okay that it would succede when you make it. If its easy both ways though that seems TOO easy
[00:08] <TehSuq> Still, there should be SOME benefit to higher levels. Faster crafting, more efficient (uses less ingredients), higher quality, or something.
[00:08] <Screams> that there are 6 billion p
[00:08] <Screams> people here
[00:08] <B_afraid> pretend? what do you mean shox?
[00:08] <SoCxRhijord> Item overflow is a good point. But I think WoW players will be much better equiped with player made items, rather than drops
[00:08] * Isenbright has joined #worldofwarcraft
[00:08] <_egg> it boils down to either frustration finding the materials, or frustration at a lower chance of creating them
[00:08] <NekkeN> Trige wanted me to pass this along. He thinks you should add TROLLZZZZZZZ
[00:08] <Isenbright> good day
[00:08] <poro> actually, it's quite realistic for items to succeed all the time..there just should be different quality levels
[00:08] <Screams> there should be difficulty
[00:08] <Samus> Maybe certain materials, for very uber items, could be difficult to find.
[00:08] <_egg> personally i'd rather not have to run around finding stuff all the time
[00:08] <jumbojack> i think there shouldnt be gays in the milatery
[00:08] -Trige:#worldofwarcraft- TROLLZ OWNZ FORZ LIFEZ
[00:08] <E_Ragnarok> well, either the materials are rare, or then put the failure chance
[00:08] -Trige:#worldofwarcraft- TROLLZ OWNZ FORZ LIFEZ
[00:08] <Pepe> I thought Trolls were in the game
[00:08] <Karunel> That's ok
[00:08] <Karunel> But still
[00:08] <Ivanushka> I think materials for Items will be harder to obtain in Quests so no need for failure..it would suck to get components after
[00:08] <B_afraid> good ;point semus
[00:08] <Screams> lolz
[00:08] <Vinven> yes saves time and money Id beleive, just think spending a good portion of your time an money trying to craft an awesome weapon, just to find out that you failed
[00:08] <Karunel> Common items will be flooding the market
[00:08] <Ivanushka> 30 hours of playing so it fails
[00:08] <BlueDragon> It balances the fact you need a trade-receipe to make an item which will most likely be destroyed after making the item
[00:08] <E_Ragnarok> just k-line him
[00:08] <Screams> rofl.
[00:08] <Errorist> LMFAO
[00:08] <Karunel> thus depricing FAST
[00:08] <Valconeye> bye bye trige
[00:08] <Maus> he alrdy had a last warning
[00:08] <Screams> <3 trige
[00:08] <Cynian> Anybody who's been a serious crafter will realize that this is going to be a good thing for them. Critical Failures were frusturating and a cheap way to avoid market inflation that really wasn't effective. I'd rather see the failure causing the person to die, but I definitely don't want to have to spend another 3 hours hunting the materials because something my character cannot even control caused a failure.
[00:08] <Maus> ban ffs?
[00:08] <SoCxRhijord> This leads to the point that items required for awesome weapons will be extremely hard to find
[00:08] <Samus> Wouldn't it suck if you went to the top of Black Rock Spire, or something, for a certain material, and then failed at using it?
[00:08] <jumbojack> i think there shouldnt be gays in the milatery
[00:08] <Galadyn|Thief2> rawrawr
[00:08] <Samus> That's what I meant, Cynian.
[00:08] * Drew| has quit IRC (Autokilled: Enough of your racial comments.)
[00:09] <Malkin> gotta be super fast reader to read anything in here lol :)
[00:09] <Jawnee> yeah it would samus BUT
[00:09] <Screams> shake it, shake it shake it
[00:09] <Nihnyes> hi
[00:09] <SoCxRhijord> So be prepared for item hunts
[00:09] <Tetrian> Gunndog
[00:09] <visible> i think there should be grays in the milertrary too
[00:09] <Vinven> or if there were failures, make it so that it doesnt take all your items used to craft it
[00:09] <Guest84734> are you only gonna be allowed 1 job???
[00:09] <Jawnee> if you are high enough level to be gathering items from blackrock spire
[00:09] <Isenbright> anyone (preferably timezone around GMT or +1) in search of a guild?
[00:09] <Jawnee> your chance of failure by that point shoule be minimal
[00:09] <Kubien> All that failures do is cause unneeded frustration and wastes a lot of invested time. If it's going to take a long time to get materils to craft and item, and you have to crafts 100s of items for a skillup, failures are just pure furstration and unnessacry
[00:09] <Galadyn|Thief2> oh there's some kinda dev chat happening soon isn't there
[00:09] <ariqs> don't believe so, guest
[00:09] <Dariuas> Isenbright, this is not a recruitement chat
[00:09] <Samus> I just don't think that failing is the answer. It's a waste, and it isn't fun. And the point of a game is fun.
[00:09] <Galadyn|Thief2> :>
[00:09] <mrONLINE-oOv> THERE IS NO JOBS THIS ISNT NOOB FFXI
[00:09] <Ivanushka> it all depends how easy components are to get
[00:09] <Count-Isaac> are you advertising for a guild? lol
[00:09] <Screams> omg kubien to spam unnecessary crap plz
[00:09] <PsychicOracle> Wow. . .a LOT of people. . .
[00:09] <SoCxRhijord> I beleive the world has items as well, so not all items will come from monsters to craft things.
[00:09] <NekkeN> Trige wants to know why he's banned for showing his love for trollz
[00:09] <Karunel> It's ok that very rare items have a 0% failure chance. Common materials should have it, or at least the possibility of making very poor quality items
[00:09] <Wolfen> To help balance 'no failures' some materials will probably be hard to find
[00:09] <Derek> I think it should either be very hard to learn a formula or very hard to acquire the materials (for rarer items) then it balances the fact you can make it with 100% success
[00:09] <Karunel> that are actually worth nothing
[00:09] <Ivanushka> it could be like trading card game for obtaining components
[00:09] <jumbojack> FOH WILL PWN YOUR BITCH ASS'S, BE WARNED
[00:09] <Screams> who is foh irl
[00:09] <Screams> ?
[00:09] <et2112> lol
[00:09] <Griffer> well your looking at the fact that compnents wont be bought in a store
[00:09] <Nihnyes> wtg jack
[00:09] <Samus> The best items should always be loot, anyhow.
[00:09] <Isenbright> Dariuas sorry
[00:09] <Vinven> Ah shuddup Jumbo
[00:09] <Griffer> you have to gather them
[00:09] <Valconeye> FOH is GAY
[00:09] <Count-Isaac> next topic please..
[00:10] <Oaksheart> this chat needs like 5 people allowed to talk at a time
[00:10] <Jeremias> thanks for the info
[00:10] <Screams> i vote
[00:10] <Screams> to unban
[00:10] <Screams> trige
[00:10] <Errorist> foh is a clan from SB or something I think
[00:10] <E_Ragnarok> ok moderate ta
[00:10] <E_Ragnarok> :p
[00:10] <Vinven> Wil poisons be a tradeskill?
[00:10] <TehSuq> FoH = Flowers of Happiness.
[00:10] <Griffer> so finding components is part of the process
[00:10] <Nihnyes> lol please
[00:10] <SoCxRhijord> Lesser components will probably be sold in stores
[00:10] <Nihnyes> don't turn this into an EQ rant
[00:10] <Griffer> failing after finding those compenents
[00:10] <Screams> unban trige
[00:10] <NekkeN> FoH = Full of Homos
[00:10] <AgentXer0> How can anything constructive come from this if i dont' pay attention for a second i miss 3 pages of text
[00:10] <mrONLINE-oOv> [4:10pm] <Valconeye> FOH is GAY -- almost as gay as your site no?
[00:10] <Griffer> serves lil purpose
[00:10] <Malkin> rofl NekkeN
[00:10] <B_afraid> well obviously, they will have item RARITY, meaning for instance diamonds will be harder to get than bronze(just an example)
[00:10] <Screams> unban trige
[00:10] <Jaenos> I feel sorry to those going to try to edit this and make it look like an actual conversation
[00:10] <Radlin-SH-> One question : How will Blizz keep the flow of the markets in tune. I mean to say, how will the stop overproduction of the high level items from crafting?
[00:10] <B_afraid> lol
[00:10] <E_Ragnarok> its gettin offtopic :F
[00:10] <kane> wonder what the odds are of any of the devs actually reading all this ;o
[00:10] * Maus nods to jaen
[00:10] <Djharske[MDoM]> ;F
[00:10] <Nihnyes> ah the mmorpg community~
[00:10] <shoX> rarity is something everyone needs so its not rarity anymore
[00:10] <SoCxRhijord> Radlin
[00:10] <B_afraid> my nose is bleeding...
[00:10] <Maus> u guys really should publisise this so much...
[00:10] <Maus> shouldnt*
[00:10] <SoCxRhijord> Radlin - Components would have to be extremely rare for high level items.
[00:10] <Khurag> If you can find diamonds, what good will they be for? Armour or Weapons?
[00:11] <Malkin> only 239 ppl :)
[00:11] <Pepe> _.,+'``++,._.,+'``++,._ Let's talk about PVP already plz _.,+'``++,._.,+'``++,._
[00:11] <B_afraid> JUST AN EXAMPLE I SAID!
[00:11] <zdlr> i agree Maus lol
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> Still, in diablo we saw people were able to exploit certain bugs
[00:11] <Dariuas> Please stay on topic!!!
[00:11] <TehSuq> Rarity won't do it -- especially since Bliz is planning to have no item decay. Even a rare thing becomes abundant if it enters the game but never leaves.
[00:11] <Vinven> Hopefully they will learn from others mistakes and not make tradeskills including poison if it is a tradeskill, not based off rare drops from lower level creatures
[00:11] <Sez> hey all
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> in order to get things
[00:11] <Maus> yo sez
[00:11] <Sez> omg maus
[00:11] <Sez> the chatting
[00:11] <Sez> lol
[00:11] <Nihnyes> []====|>>>>>> THE SWORD!!!
[00:11] <SoCxRhijord> Bugs in MMORPGs is a completely different thing
[00:11] <Sez> ty!
[00:11] <shoX> collect rare stuff ~~means camp a rare mob spawn?
[00:11] <Maus> lets bail man
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> In most real MMORPGs you can get high level things
[00:11] <Kaison> I wish to play wow right now
[00:11] <Maus> chute ffs
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> but the crafting rate
[00:11] <Maus> < noob
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> slows the markets
[00:11] <Nihnyes> don't we all Kaison.
[00:11] <Isenbright> Hey Radlin
[00:11] <SoCxRhijord> I beleive the crafting rate will be much higher in wow
[00:12] <SoCxRhijord> Becasue of this No Fail thing
[00:12] <Derek> With no item decay i think there should be a way that items leave the game world ...OR a constant influx of new items. The first one seems easier although
[00:12] <Radlin-SH-> I'm just wondering, if crafting gets out of hand, how can they regulate the markets?
[00:12] <Radlin-SH-> crafting rate is 100%
[00:12] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:12] <Dariuas> Guys
[00:12] <Dariuas> PLEASE stay on topic. If you don't, we will remove you with out warning.
[00:12] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Allright I see lots of comments here and idea's from the community, that is good. Please make sure to continue with constructive comments, this is easier and more effective for everyone.
[00:12] <Dariuas> We do realize this is spammfull, and it maybe hard to read everything people say, but do your best. If not, say bye bye.
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder>
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 3. A topic that has risen many times is Character Collision. How do you feel about "CD" in MMOGs. Are you for, again? Is there a middle ground?
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> oups
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 3. A topic that has risen many times is Character Collision. How do you feel about "CD" in MMOGs. Are you for, again? Is there a middle ground?
[00:13] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:13] <SoCxRhijord> I'm for it
[00:13] <Keystone> for it~
[00:13] <Ivanushka> what is character collision?
[00:13] <Vinven> CD?
[00:13] <][nfrared> go for a middle ground
[00:13] <Ralan> for
[00:13] <Karunel> For. It's good for combat
[00:13] <Qwixux> .
[00:13] <klyss> ... What is CD? *feels stupid*
[00:13] <E_Ragnarok> i didnt even understand that
[00:13] <toasterboy> ?..
[00:13] <kane> its better with out it
[00:13] <ariqs> what is character collision?
[00:13] <Amywen> hmm i dont like that
[00:13] <AgentXer0> for it
[00:13] <Karunel> More realistic
[00:13] <Keystone> not very realistic if you can run straight through people
[00:13] <Malkin> Collision - no. Maybe only for PVP server if there is any? ":)
[00:13] <Nihnyes> lol
[00:13] <Radlin-SH-> Character Collision, could someone elaborate for me?
[00:13] <Smeg> thank god, no Tauren walls
[00:13] <Count-Isaac> doesn't really matter to me
[00:13] <Samus> Certain things should have collision, and some things shouldn't. Like other characters.
[00:13] <VicVega> as long as people can't push off cliffs when you are afk
[00:13] <klyss> ooh, pushthrough?
[00:13] <B_afraid> I like limited CG, meaning you know youve hit somthing, but it cant block you
[00:13] <toasterboy> ffs stop spamming me stupid POS
[00:13] <klyss> I like it
[00:13] <Wolfen> I'd like it, but some will find a way to abuse it
[00:13] <kane> i hate geting stuck at raids wheres theres like 50 people ;\
[00:13] <SoCxRhijord> Character Collision makes PvP and fighting much much MUCH more interesting
[00:13] <Kheldon> I think there should be character collision. If not in cities to prevent griefing but out in the wild to add more to fighting. PvP as well as PvE
[00:13] <Samus> Otherwise, you have griefers blocking doorways.
[00:13] <Nihnyes> CD is good
[00:13] <][nfrared> collision is good, take all your stamina away or something
[00:13] <Khurag> Running through people is rediculous
[00:13] <B_afraid> CD is bad
[00:13] <Tuco> I'm for the Final Fantasy variant in which one is able to 'slowly' move past or through another Player Character.
[00:14] <Vinven> oh, no we shouldnt be able to run through eachother, its bad for dueling n pvp
[00:14] <TehSuq> Without colision, there's huge troubles for PvP -- you cannot "protect" your vital-but-vulnerable support groups and nukers.
[00:14] <Jawnee> Character Collision is what keeps players "avatars" from walking directly through one another
[00:14] <Nihnyes> blocking, on the other hand, is bad
[00:14] <Count-Isaac> both have disadvantages/advantages that have to be weighted and a decision should be based on that
[00:14] <SoCxRhijord> The Strategy involved with CD makes it great.
[00:14] <Casi|UDL> Yes character collision.
[00:14] <Karunel> For example, take DAoC. What's the point of forming a line if I can eeeeh just run trough it :|?
[00:14] <Oberon> character collision is fine as long as it doesn't turn into those opening days of UO, when everyone tried to leave the inn at once
[00:14] <Tetrian> IF its going to be a little bit based on pvp, ala say, DAOC I feel CD should be in, DAOC would be alot better if it was in, If mainly pve there isnt really a point to it
[00:14] <Casi|UDL> Realistic
[00:14] <E_Ragnarok> oh
[00:14] <Kubien> Collision is not nessacary and only gives griefs ways to exploit it to anoy the hell out of poeple or ruin thier time. You honestly never even notice collision unless it effects you in a bad way.
[00:14] <B_afraid> or enable it FOR pvp only?
[00:14] <Maus> wtf is cd...
[00:14] <Sask> ughh Ati's Tech chat was nothing like this spammin
[00:14] <][nfrared> Don't be afraid to add stratagy to the game with things like collision
[00:14] <Maus> oh, coll detection
[00:14] <mrONLINE-oOv> collision not needed, next question
[00:14] <B_afraid> character collision
[00:14] <Derek> Id say middle ground. Too much collisions would be crazy in a town. But constant running through a character who is standing there is silly.
[00:14] <SoCxRhijord> WoW will have a lot of AOE Spells, and CD will work very well with that.
[00:14] <Nihnyes> Maybe there should be designated areas
[00:14] <E_Ragnarok> well its stupid if you can run through people :p, more like push them aside or something :]
[00:14] <ariqs> I thought character collision was already present in today's mmorpgs
[00:14] <Nihnyes> that disable CD somehow
[00:14] <Vinven> PVP only character collision would be fine
[00:14] <Nihnyes> like around a building?
[00:14] <Khurag> Pushing aside would be useful
[00:14] <et2112> need collision detection... not having it generally leads to crappy exploits and tactics in daoc like "stacking" pbae casters
[00:14] <shoX> I support an idea of giving full game client avaible to download , CD is something I really dont need to have
[00:14] <Samus> It serves a purpose, Ragnarok.
[00:14] <Ivanushka> collision can protect wizards and other important characters like protecting him in circle
[00:14] <BlueDragon> Character collision makes it more real, but also makes it more complicated to get around.. it also allows for people to block certain tight enterances perhaps?
[00:14] <TehSuq> In PvP, tanks are supposed to PROTECT the healers and nukers. Without collision detection, that becomes an exercise in either futility or frustration.
[00:14] <r00t_> yup
[00:14] <Tetrian> Collision Makes large scale battles more strategic, since people have to think about where to put themselves in order to protect something like casters
[00:14] <mrONLINE-oOv> they wanna stack? nuke em with aoe
[00:14] <Jaenos> While it does create problems for trapping people. For example in UO it was done to be a player killer trick; however WoW, without a pvp problem the only way to exploit it is to trap someone fleeing from an NPC. So really it's not that big of the deal, I am personally against it, for one reason that if there was player collision, jerks of the world would unite and screw up systems to places you want to get it.
[00:15] <Ivanushka> but if you throw 10 ppl in front of wizard
[00:15] <Count-Isaac> ivansuska has a point
[00:15] <kane> it should be there with mobs but not other players then
[00:15] <Ivanushka> and he gets through to wizard
[00:15] <][nfrared> right keep collision, for stratagy purpose
[00:15] <SoCxRhijord> Perhaps a system like in UO - where you can "SHOVE" people out of the way if you have MAX Stanima
[00:15] <Samus> Character collision is a griefer's paradise.
[00:15] <Nihnyes> what if there were designated areas, somehow set out, that in those areas, CD would be cancelled in a way, like around buildings or in small entrances where it could be difficult, because we really don't want blocking of banks and such.
[00:15] <TehSuq> Perhaps they need to implement collision detection ONLY in the PvP zones. That way they save the processor power in general but get the vital protective capabilities for PvP.
[00:15] <|X|DoMi> keep it to a minimum
[00:15] <Casi|UDL> Is there going tyo be a PvP dedicated server?
[00:15] <Vinven> shoving people that are afk could be bad though
[00:15] <Ivanushka> collision adds to strategy
[00:15] <kane> can you SHOVE people into lava? ;o
[00:15] <Samus> Sounds like a lot of crazy programming they can do without, Nihnyes.
[00:15] <Ivanushka> have melee in front
[00:15] <E_Ragnarok> kane, lol :p
[00:15] <Karunel> A way to prevent the exploting thingie is make a /warp button or something that moves you some metters away from where you are, in case you get stuck accidentally or due to a stupid griefer who thinks he's cool for abusing CD.
[00:15] <Tetrian> Good idea imo Tehsuq :)
[00:15] <Ivanushka> and casters behind
[00:15] <Vinven> If I was afk and you could shove me into a monster or to death etc
[00:15] <Nihnyes> yea that's also the problem i was thiking aobut Samu
[00:15] <Nihnyes> s
[00:15] <Neo-Bahamut> Seems to me the advantges of no-collision (less processing required, thus less lag, plus eliminates a griefing method) outway the advantages of collision (prevents people from running through a line of tanks, "realism")
[00:16] <Ivanushka> still there are ranged monsters
[00:16] <Ivanushka> who can hit from afar
[00:16] <Cynian> colission's going to make it difficult for players that are getting lower pings to the server, espically in PvP
[00:16] <r00t_> collision should only work in pvp zones, yea
[00:16] <Jaenos> Or for example, ina PvP war zone, look at the Warcraft III for an example of how surrounding a hero is fatal
[00:16] <Khurag> a warp button would be abused terribly
[00:16] <B_afraid> LIMITED CD! BEST OF BOTH WORLDS! you KNOW youve hot something...you cant go right through it, but you nearly do...like in EQ right now. And maybe have full CD for fights and duels...that might work
[00:16] <Nihnyes> it'd be hard, probably not worth the trouble
[00:16] <SoCxRhijord> a /warp would be even more exploitable
[00:16] <Ivanushka> so it wont get abused
[00:16] <Samus> See, if you put in Character Collision to solve one problem, it creates ten more.
[00:16] <B_afraid> *hit
[00:16] <Kheldon> Well turning collision off in settlement areas would remove most of the related griefing, wouldn't it?
[00:16] <Ivanushka> but PC chararters shouldnt collied
[00:16] <NekkeN> whats the topic?
[00:16] <E_Ragnarok> if you add character collision, people will block you and all
[00:16] <E_Ragnarok> ;p
[00:16] <Nihnyes> Character Collision Nekken
[00:16] <B_afraid> character collision
[00:16] <Tetrian> Neo, no collision detection pretty much destroyed Daoc realm warfare as it was originally thought out and explained :X its more of a trainwreck now til the key classes have gone down
[00:16] <Ivanushka> it would make fight less fun if you for example get stuck or something accidently :)
[00:16] <Kubien> Shoving only would create problems. There where plent of times in EQ when someone would levitate and afk person and push them into a pvp area and kill them.
[00:16] <SoCxRhijord> Perhaps Collision could only happen with Monsters
[00:16] <Neo-Bahamut> you can block enterences to popular areas...
[00:16] <Kheldon> Where as out in the open, PvP areas, PvE areas it's turned on to add more tactics and strategy to the game. :)
[00:16] <Malkin> Kheldon so no collision in town but yes everywhere else? :))))
[00:16] <angrard> Shadowbane had a skill tanks could use to become impassible and block LOS. That's cool because then you can have it in PvP and not have it in towns and whatnot
[00:16] <TehSuq> Good idea, B_AFRAID. Something like "anybody within my character gets snared to 25% movement rate while they're inside my footprint."
[00:16] <NekkeN> Nice, Just leave it like daoc imo
[00:16] <Smeg> surrounding someone is extremely hard in a real 3d enviroment compared to 2d top down war3 style
[00:16] <Kheldon> Malkin: Yes
[00:16] <Nihnyes> yea that sucked Kubien lol
[00:17] <Casi|UDL> add char collision but add a way to get around it that requires thought
[00:17] <][nfrared> and if the beast is that freaking huge...NO CD through it
[00:17] <Jaenos> I hate walking through people in games, but the facts are simple, people will abuse it if there were collision
[00:17] <B_afraid> exactly tehsuq
[00:17] <Casi|UDL> Such as UO had refresh potions.
[00:17] <Ivanushka> you dont have to surroung
[00:17] <Kheldon> There is always a middle ground
[00:17] <Ivanushka> but you can have some in front
[00:17] <Ivanushka> and some behind
[00:17] <Ivanushka> if it goes around
[00:17] <Ivanushka> at least it wont attack
[00:17] <SoCxRhijord> Middle ground can be eliminated with Tiles
[00:17] <Ivanushka> for couple of seconds
[00:17] <Nihnyes> yea thats a good way of designated areas
[00:17] <shoX> I'll leave it to Blizz ..they will make right choice , I wont :)
[00:17] <Nihnyes> just the towns
[00:17] <Damar> hey Argus ^^
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> as long as the ai is smart collision detection is not needed
[00:17] <Smeg> has to be a solid wall, otherwise its easy to get past with straifing
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> ac2 had smart detection
[00:17] <Samus> Plus, in a dungeon crawl, in tighter spaces, a group of ten with collision would really, really suck.
[00:17] <Nihnyes> what about smaller dungeons? those could be included in not having CD also maybe?
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> not needed
[00:17] <Kubien> If you create a wall of tanks to protect casters, a couple AEs and your all dead, so thats not much of a strategy
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> next
[00:17] <Xantric> b/leave
[00:17] <Kreugen> funny, i just got stuck on a mass of people when I zoned in eq
[00:17] <Malkin> Kheldon Im up for that :) Or only in PVP servers :)
[00:18] <Nihnyes> yea same malk
[00:18] <TehSuq> MRONLINE, collision detection IS needed for PvP, though.
[00:18] <Ivanushka> So in Short..MOB collision yes, PC collision no
[00:18] <Khurag> What if there was no collision in between Party Members
[00:18] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:18] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay thanks for your insights on this questions, your views are quite mixed, but you can agree on certain points. Thats good.
[00:18] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next question
[00:18] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 4. Factional PvP has also been talked about alot; do you feel that Factional PvP is the way to go if PvP exists in the game? If not, why? If so...why? Do you have better suggestions?
[00:18] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:18] <shoX> I demand a war
[00:18] <mrONLINE-oOv> [4:18pm] <TehSuq> MRONLINE, collision detection IS needed for PvP, though. --why?
[00:18] <NekkeN> Imo to solve character collision Wrap them in foam, then when they crash it wont hurt
[00:18] <Vinven> Good vs evil alignment is always the way to go
[00:18] <B_afraid> Ive never tried PvP, so i wouldtn know
[00:18] <Sask> FFA Pvp
[00:18] <Samus> Factional PvP is great for storyline and RP. Sounds like fun.
[00:18] <Karunel> General PvP is important
[00:19] <Radlin-SH-> I love the idea of factional PVP, it allows for more realism
[00:19] <SoCxRhijord> Factional PvP mixed with free for all PvP is the way to go. It's Realistic
[00:19] <angrard> Dread/Darktide server
[00:19] <][nfrared> factional pvp is great idea
[00:19] <Ivanushka> FActional fighting is good if it is limited to areas not near to cities
[00:19] <Neo-Bahamut> Well, it is WARcraft, after all.
[00:19] <Oaksheart> I suppose so, otherwise you end up with lots of random griefing
[00:19] <Eclipser> yes factional pvp has been the winning element of daoc in my opinion
[00:19] <Tetrian> I like it, worked in DaoC - with no communicatione etc :D
[00:19] <NekkeN> make pvp wtf own
[00:19] <Jaenos> It;s warcraft, to not have an eleborate/fun factional pvp system would be complete nonesense.
[00:19] <Kheldon> Factional PvP rocks unless they find a good working open PvP system. (againm a good middle ground can be found here as well)
[00:19] <Vinven> DAOC RvR was awesome, especially the battlegrounds
[00:19] <Casi|UDL> No. It shgould be free for all. It is up to player base to make zones/towns safe
[00:19] <shoX> war is life tho
[00:19] <et2112> it has to be factional to fit in with the warcraft story lines... nuff said
[00:19] <Nihnyes> factional pop can be ok to an extent
[00:19] <Eclipser> give players the chance to play with friends and to pvp with friends
[00:19] <Nihnyes> there's of course disadvantages
[00:19] <Casi|UDL> There should always be bad guys.
[00:19] <Ivanushka> Factional pvp will add spice to game
[00:19] <Derek> Factional PVP will run into problems with guilds
[00:19] <Nihnyes> but in general
[00:19] <Wolfen> Yeah Factional PvP fits the history
[00:19] <Kubien> No pvp > factional pvp >> open pvp. Thats my view.
[00:19] <Khurag> Factional PvP is good. But what if you wanted to start a human bandit guild
[00:19] <Oaksheart> If you leave it to the player base, your game will be terrible. Look at shadowbane
[00:19] <Kheldon> It doesn't have to be all no-PvP or full crazed pointless murduring PvP.
[00:19] <shoX> endless conflict like in Planetside :)
[00:19] <BlueDragon> Completely depends on how they do it
[00:19] <Nihnyes> for realism, factional pvp is good
[00:19] <Karunel> Like having realms battle against each other, but NOT LOCKED alliances like in DAoC PLEASE that gets boring in the end. Maybe some restrictions, but allow freedom for the GMs or even the players to decide who they go war against
[00:19] <Nihnyes> and RPing
[00:19] <SoCxRhijord> Orcs should be able to fight Orcs
[00:19] <NekkeN> Make it so i can kill eclisper
[00:19] <Kreugen> if you don't have all out general PVP, then factional PVP is great yeah
[00:19] <Oberon> As long as people have the opportunity not to participate any type of pvp will be popular
[00:19] <Derid> unlimited PvP is good. whacking mobs is boring.
[00:19] <Tetrian> Kreug :)
[00:19] <r00t_> a certain amount of realism/storyline has to be present. i want an MMORPG that engroses me in the game for many months before it becomes more objective-based
[00:19] <Casi|UDL> Keep in mind your most dedicated playerbase will be PvP based
[00:19] <Vinven> eh, then it because like rallos zek its mayhem
[00:19] <Kreugen> it IS warcraft for christ's sake
[00:19] <][nfrared> if not factional, bruitail guild vs guild. Where if guild A wants to be enemies with guild B they can be. Then their members can attack each other at will
[00:19] <Eclipser> country based pvp is cool
[00:19] <Sask> AC DT had it right
[00:19] <Ivanushka> it is worlf of WARCRAFT :) so there should be war..if there is no faction pvp...there is no...ermm war
[00:19] <Slansin_FoH> Factional PvP is something I am counting on. I'm sick of fighting stupid AI mobs.
[00:20] <Oberon> You force it on people and you'll get 1/4th the sever population
[00:20] <Nihnyes> yea what r00t said
[00:20] <TehSuq> Personally, I LOVE PvP but I HATE PK. (In other words, choosing to fight a war vs. getting murdered at random.) DAoC did this very nicely, and having seen that I'm all in favor of factional war.
[00:20] <Casi|UDL> All the rest of these no PvP newbies craft items until the next cool game comes out
[00:20] <Nihnyes> factional is good, but it should be limited
[00:20] <shoX> PvP - faction wars + arena battles - suits for me
[00:20] <Radlin-SH-> It would be inane for an alliance member to approach a horde member, and not feel any anger towards the other. In order to ensure realism, I think factional PVP is needed. Also, if an alliance person could strut right up to a horde person and walk around their city (assuming they can ward off the NPCs), it would be . . . asinine
[00:20] <Vyck_Drago> ai 4 life!
[00:20] <Cynian> We saw Factional PvP with SWG, which was done poorly and started me thinking that factional PvP is not possible to implement. Instead a DAoC system with looser restrictions to allow for spying (it's not like it didn't happen anyways in DAoC) should be implemented
[00:20] <Karunel> Factional PvP, also, gives pple a reason to work togheter.
[00:20] <Derek> I think there needs to be some way that you arent automatically thrown into a faction depending on a race. That means multiple race guilds will still be able to take part and choose a faction
[00:20] <Tetrian> Fractional pvp daoc style, rocks, but not ala they did in EQ - ends up in unbalanced griefing :x
[00:20] <Nihnyes> or be able to be altered, like another person stated, maybe through Gm's
[00:20] <Jawnee> Personally if you dont have PvP what would the point of factional grouping be anyway?
[00:20] <Kreugen> although I wish some of the races could go horde or alliance when they create the character
[00:20] <Tetrian> man, the spam is sick here:D
[00:20] <Derid> There should be competing racial factions then, as per Orcs v Orcs etc.
[00:20] <Vyck_Drago> based on faction?
[00:20] <r00t_> well thought out yes. i wouldnt expect anything less from Blizzard, who hasn't let me down yet
[00:20] <kane> i think if every server has pvp then it should be factional only outside of duels
[00:20] <Kubien> The problem is, a well intoduced pvp will make a game good. But a badly introduced pvp will completly ruin a game for a lot of poeple.
[00:20] <baxter> factions are boring free for all is more interesting
[00:20] <Vinven> should be faction based pvp such as good vs evil, with areas of battlegrounds to meet n fight or something interesting, not just griefing people while they hunt
[00:20] <Jaenos> Derid, I agree
[00:20] <Ivanushka> Goblins could choos wheter to join horde or alliance
[00:20] <B_afraid> tell me more about teh pros/cons of PvP and ill make an opinion. EG what happens when i Kill/die? do i get any loot? do i lose any loot? will there be large scale pvp? if so, how many people?
[00:20] <Ivanushka> for example :)
[00:20] <angrard> Andred/Mordred/Darktide type server. Then the pvp guilds would be happy
[00:20] <Eclipser> BASE IT ON LOCATION
[00:20] <SoCxRhijord> Orc clans fight Orc Clans too.
[00:21] <Khurag> If you could choose the faction yoru guild was in. Because there had to be traitors on both sides, no?
[00:21] <][nfrared> factional PvP in SWG was stupid, cause people could be klilled in TOWN. No town killing towns are happy places for crafting and selling
[00:21] <Casi|UDL> Do not base it on location
[00:21] <Eclipser> THAT WAY EVERYONE HAS ACESS TO ALL RACES
[00:21] <TehSuq> KUBIEN, agreed. As far as I'm concerned, that's the difference between a PvP game and a PK game.
[00:21] <Jaenos> Throughout the history of Warcraft there has been interal strife within the Alliance and the Horde
[00:21] <Derid> Yes
[00:21] <Malkin> Here is what I think. PvP is a good idea however there are players that never pvp.... so while it makes sense for alliance vs horde pvp what about the people who just like PvM? :) Perhaps blizzard should add specific zones, near the borders of every kingdom where factional pvp is possible but not everywhere else... :)
[00:21] <Vinven> yea, no exp loss from PvP, no item loot either
[00:21] <Neo-Bahamut> Good v Evil doesn't work, there are good orcs and evil orcs, and good humans and evil humans. That's not a good way to divide players.
[00:21] <Kheldon> yeah...a more flexible faction system would be ncie
[00:21] <Casi|UDL> Keep PvP open. If players are against PvP make non PvP servers for them
[00:21] <Cynian> PvP should just be for fun. If there is some kind of prize or bonus gained from it, then much stricter rules must be implemented to preserve game ballence.
[00:21] <r00t_> good point Malkin
[00:21] <Sask> Really a person should have a cjoice of a Non-PvP server..or going all out on a PvP (take your chances server).
[00:21] <B_afraid> o god...222 people...all voicing their opinions...
[00:21] <shoX> hey when war comes you wont see Gnomes never again ...they'll be smashed like tomatoes
[00:21] <Vinven> yea a PvM server would be good
[00:21] <Kreugen> it IS special zones Malkin
[00:21] <Dariuas> Sask: Asheron's Call did that.
[00:21] <][nfrared> If people don't like to PvP, then don't do the faction quests to take a side simple
[00:21] <Karunel> Free PvP is a bit sucky imho. I mean it may be cool, but people always find ways to grief and generally annoy people. If the game has PvE too, then I'd go for factional PvP. Even if it's fixed sides. But big scale pvP is always fun
[00:21] <Ivanushka> and people shoulnt be punished for dying in pvp except usual downtime for death
[00:21] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 5 more minutes for this topic *
[00:22] <Tetrian> malkin, easier to make pvp system and then apply it to mobs than make it the other way around (in say a pure pve server)
[00:22] <Sask> exactly...I played on both...
[00:22] <Malkin> Kreugen well what are we arguing about then =pppp
[00:22] <B_afraid> well will there be entire pvp servers?
[00:22] <Ivanushka> and person who killed should advanve in rank
[00:22] <TehSuq> While I like the idea of traitors, we need to have some VISUAL cue that a player or group has changed sides. Otherwise, it gets very difficult for players to figure out who's an ally and who's an enemy.
[00:22] <Aurican> Faction wars are the best!
[00:22] <SoCxRhijord> Free PVP mixed with FActional PVP would Balance everything out.
[00:22] <Ivanushka> like becoming seargent liutenant
[00:22] <Casi|UDL> For everyone else Make open PvP servers. My money the population on servers with game and PvP content will outweigh those with just game content.
[00:22] <Ivanushka> and gaining some items or cahs or badge :)
[00:22] <Cynian> The other problem with having characters that do both PvP and PvE is that you really can only effectively ballence the game for one of those two. Ballencing the game for both is nearly impossible as DAoC, SB, and SWG showed.
[00:22] <shoX> I have no idea who will lead those factions tho?
[00:22] <Kubien> The frontier system works great in DAoC. Give poeple extra rewards for PvEing in a PvP enviorment, but don't force poeple to pvp where some high level can run up and 1 shot them taking away the past 3 hours of work on thier part.
[00:22] <B_afraid> maybe show their name in red if they are an enemy green if there an ally?
[00:22] <Kreugen> PVP in wow is factional in specific zones, where you gain unique looking items comparable to the ones you gain in PVE
[00:22] <Ivanushka> Imagine if you war Captian of Alliance or something :)
[00:22] <Sask> on a PvP server...clans (Factions) formed on there own
[00:22] <Vinven> Some sort of good reward for killing someone, but no more than afew levels below you, the higher the level above you the greater the reward
[00:22] <Oaksheart> There should be an incentive to PVP, if you're willing to risk something you need a reward.
[00:22] <SoCxRhijord> Yeah, mindless killing sucks.
[00:22] <KlauZ> Level ranges?
[00:22] <angrard> it's called fun
[00:23] <Ivanushka> if there is no reward there is no fun
[00:23] <Oaksheart> The unique items sounds interesting , but its pretty vague
[00:23] <shoX> give factions - give their leaders - give scheduled battles - give events - perfect factional pvp
[00:23] <Casi|UDL> Agreed. Give free reign to who fights who and let them personalize it.
[00:23] <et2112> factional pvp on normal servers to fit the warcraft story line, then make specialty servers like full pvp or rpg or pvm only to appeal to the minorities that want those
[00:23] <Sask> Yeh like when a person is killed..they drop items
[00:23] <Vinven> and should be some seperator, so theres not high lvls killing newbs by the dozens
[00:23] <Cynian> You get weapons from PvP with little-no risk so far from the sound of it.
[00:23] <][nfrared> I hate the fronteers, takes up 20% of the world with stuff that could have been cool, instead 15% of the fronteers are not used
[00:23] <Fenix_light> will there be "safezones"?
[00:23] <Khurag> So level restrictions for PvP?
[00:23] <TehSuq> DAoC showed that regional, faction-based PvP can be fun and exciting while still maintaining a safe haven from combat for those of us who don't want to be looking over our shoulders every moment that we're online.
[00:23] <Ivanushka> shuld be safe zones in cities
[00:23] <Ivanushka> or near cities
[00:23] <][nfrared> fronteers take up to much space that could have been used for great content
[00:23] <shoX> lvl restriction is obvious
[00:23] <r00t_> PvP would have to be level-restricted
[00:23] <Neo-Bahamut> I remember reading a long time ago that blizz planned to give better stuff from pvp than from non-pvp play. I don't remember where this was though...
[00:23] <Fenix_light> NO SAFE ZONES!
[00:23] <Radlin-SH-> Fenix, I would assume a safe zone is the equivalent of being near a group of NPCs, ie. in a city
[00:23] <Tetrian> Thats cause theres no point in RVR In daoc, cause of flaws in the keep system :X
[00:23] <Casi|UDL> Play on a non PvP server
[00:23] <B_afraid> Rewards for PvP can be easily abused. I could just get my friend to make a junl character and kill him 50 times in a row without him fighting back, and get the 50 rewards :/
[00:23] <Derek> is there risk to PVP though ? incentive to PVP as well as a reward are key to making any kind of PVP work. as well as not alienate the people who dont want to PVP at all
[00:23] <Kheldon> TehSuq: that's true..but imo things can be taken a step further
[00:23] <Tetrian> infared
[00:23] <Fenix_light> safe zones sux :(
[00:23] <Ivanushka> oh come on entering alliance city and wacking people
[00:23] <][nfrared> yes
[00:23] <Casi|UDL> seperate PvP rules by servers not factions
[00:23] <Kreugen> noe-bahamut: items with unique appearance, not better stats
[00:23] <Ivanushka> it isnt realistic
[00:23] <Sask> omg pls no safezones....that grief zones..some little jerk runs and hides in em..after cheap shot'n ya
[00:24] <qatwork> Neo-Bahamut: I read something on that as well
[00:24] <TehSuq> KELDON, so long as we're making a new game, we might as well take it further, eh? ;)
[00:24] <shoX> carebear friendly if you like or not
[00:24] <Vinven> at least some sort of restrictions, or maybe even just a downside to killing newbs and an upside to killing same levels n higher levels
[00:24] <wow4lyfe> !ping
[00:24] <Vinven> but there has to be safezones, such as towns and newb areas
[00:24] <Ivanushka> or than at least throw like 10000 guards
[00:24] <kane> then citys should have badass guards to stop PKing if theres no safe zones
[00:24] <B_afraid> I have a question for the moderators!:
[00:24] <Kubien> If the frontiers where decreased in size, and made equaly accessable to both sides in terms of travel time that would be a fine faction pvp.
[00:24] <SoCxRhijord> Factional pvp encourages strategy.
[00:24] <Ivanushka> to protect cities or something
[00:24] <ariqs> griefing ruins pvp
[00:24] <Icarium> el chupacabra
[00:24] <Radlin-SH-> If you don't like safezones, don't duel near them
[00:24] <Radlin-SH-> :)
[00:24] <Khurag> PK's always go to outside a safe zone and camp it
[00:24] <Whol> Will WoW have catapulting fetuses?
[00:24] <][nfrared> yes factional pvp does make for smarter pvp
[00:24] <Ivanushka> events could remove safezones from time to time
[00:24] <Derek> dont split things up via servers please. If you start changing dynamics per server you have to work on that many more problems
[00:24] <Sask> Dung's or starter areas with lev restrictions
[00:24] <Ivanushka> like assaults on city
[00:24] <shoX> I dont want to be ganked anymore :P
[00:24] <Dragohr> Make PvP in cities available but put guards who will help if they dont like one of the persons becuase of bad faction
[00:24] <Vinven> have guards roam around the safe zones borders
[00:24] <masterjedi77> hey everyone
[00:24] <][nfrared> then don't join a faction
[00:24] <Tetrian> kubien, if there was a point in taking keys, as say, strategic advantages etc, there would be more reason to use those areas :)
[00:24] <Casi|UDL> Griefing is realistic. It is nature of some.
[00:25] <Casi|UDL> Bring it all on
[00:25] <Tetrian> keeps not keys :X
[00:25] <Oaksheart> Realism isn't fun
[00:25] <Cynian> Griefing without consequences is not realistic
[00:25] <Oaksheart> for most
[00:25] <Slansin_FoH> I plan on griefing a lot
[00:25] <Nihnyes> yea so are pk's =\
[00:25] <Malkin> AHAAaa
[00:25] <Cynian> bounties should be placed for griefers
[00:25] <Malkin> is that GFraizer :)
[00:25] <Neo-Bahamut> Griefing may be realistic, but realistic is not always FUN
[00:25] <Ivanushka> but newbs should be protected
[00:25] <Vinven> if theres safe zones, guards roaming the boarders will help keep campers away
[00:25] <r00t_> FoH will be griefers? :p
[00:25] <Tetrian> hhe slansin
[00:25] <Sask> yeh if you dont want the grief..dont play on the pvp server
[00:25] <Khurag> What if you coul dchoose a neutral faction
[00:25] <Whol> Will I be able to transfer my Diablo 2 character to WoW?
[00:25] <Nihnyes> hopefully pvping is good
[00:25] <Ivanushka> imagine somebody gets game
[00:25] <Malathor> On what basis does factional pvp increase stratgy? It eliminates diplomacy totally.
[00:25] <Neo-Bahamut> And imho, FUN is the point of games, not realism
[00:25] <Ivanushka> logs in first time and gets wacked
[00:25] <Nihnyes> factional can work well depending
[00:25] <Kreugen> r00t: best answer to that is, some people deserve the be griefed
[00:25] <Ivanushka> it isnt fun
[00:25] <shoX> this game wont be PK friendly you should know it by now
[00:25] <Aurican> Faction wars prevent griefing, hoarde camps alliance, alliance strong arms form up and wipe hoarde
[00:25] <Errorist> elfs, gnomes, trolls, tuarens, and orcs arent realistic either, so lets not talk about realism
[00:25] <B_afraid> are the dev actually comming?
[00:25] <Nihnyes> i think it's good
[00:25] <Casi|UDL> Safe zones in towns can be good. It promotes merchanting
[00:25] <][nfrared> right Khurag neutral, then nobody could steal or attack you, simple
[00:25] <TehSuq> MALATHOR: You can still have diplomacy within your faction.
[00:26] <Kheldon> By keeping in character type rules and taking killing as in character actions. Proper consequences and you'll have people avoiding griefing because it hurts them more than it pleases them.
[00:26] <Casi|UDL> Outside of town should be dangerous though.
[00:26] <TehSuq> In fact, the most diplomatically skilled faction will likely dominate the server.
[00:26] <Karunel> Safe zones are a must
[00:26] <Ivanushka> cities safe outside not safe
[00:26] <SoCxRhijord> It's already known that WoW will have special pvp areas.
[00:26] <Kubien> Faction pvp means you are going to have battles of 100 vs 100. Open pvp means you have high levels ganking low levels and once every great while a 1v1 battle between equal levels.
[00:26] <Nihnyes> Xantheus ;p
[00:26] <Ivanushka> that is my short version :)
[00:26] <Vinven> and no item looting, make the pk rewards something other than punishing the poor sap who got killed
[00:26] <Xantheus> hey Nihn
[00:26] <Khurag> Exactly, merchants, crafters, PvM'ers would join neutral factions?
[00:26] <Neo-Bahamut> Some places in cities are not safe as well
[00:26] <B_afraid> YA like that whole arena battle thing...cant wait to see that
[00:26] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:27] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Good input, Generaly seems to agree factional pvp is needed, keep the good inputs comming
[00:27] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next topic.
00:27] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 5. Many see Powerleveling as a problem. Do you agree? What problems do you think they (can) cause?`Are the claims totally redicolous or close to the truth?
[00:27] <SoCxRhijord> Powerleveling is in all rpgs.
[00:27] <allout|Heero> foh will own you all
[00:27] <Kylt> impossible to control
[00:27] <][nfrared> PL'ing is fine. People jsut jelous
[00:27] <baxter> www.dictionary.com
[00:27] <Keystone_FoH> they're even!
[00:27] <Sask> Your going to have powerlevelers no matter what
[00:27] <shoX> plveling is a way of play
[00:27] <r00t_> Powerleveling will happen no matter what. Even with level-based grouping restrictions there will be work-arounds.
[00:27] <ariqs> I think it is just jealous whiners
[00:27] <allout|Heero> foh will own you all
[00:27] <Keystone_FoH> They're totally rediculous!
[00:27] <Xantheus> oh boy, a foh fanboi
[00:27] <Kubien> Power level is not a problem as long as the powerlevers are not stealing every single mob in a given area prevent poeple of that level to actualy exp
[00:27] <Nri> Powerleveling can be a problem for non-powerlevelers, because they will have difficulties getting groups at the lower levels
[00:27] <Nihnyes> PL'ing can get out of hand
[00:27] <Kreugen> um there are a lot of definitions of powerleveling.. if you mean using a high level to power up a low level, sure it can be problematic but why worry about it
[00:27] <Khurag> Don't think i've ever played a game that didn't have PL'ing
[00:27] <Tetrian> Rediculous in my opinion.. noone like the grinding, especially not when they already explored the world with their first chars
[00:27] <Ivanushka> some ppl want to power play i dont see any reason to make them not to
[00:27] <Galadyn|Thief2> From what I hear of WoW's normal leveling rate, pl'ing won't be a problem...
[00:27] <][nfrared> power players can't be stoped
[00:28] <Whol> Will there be a special WoW server that bans players with a Canadian IP?
[00:28] <TehSuq> Ultimately, I'd rather group with a powerlevelled character than with an eBaybie. How quickly you got to level xxx doesn't matter; it's how good your character is when you get there.
[00:28] <Slansin_FoH> I don't play games to roleplay a wimpy supporting character. I roleplay an assassin.
[00:28] <Darksheer> this reminds me why stratics sux
[00:28] <kane> powerleveling dont hurt anyone othen then the social life of the person doing it
[00:28] <PraSlea> yes yes yes . this game SUX
[00:28] <Vinven> eh, I think powerleveling is okay, but can cause problems, For one the person plvld might not know the class as well or have weak skills and make any they group with later suffer
[00:28] <Ivanushka> only problem becones if power character start harrasing newbies
[00:28] <Tuco> Powerleveling is a way for those with higher levels to not go through the 'grunge' of re-leveling. There should be few or no steps to prevent it from occuring.
[00:28] <Dragohr> Powerlvling is not a problem.. As long that you dont hit max lvl in a few hours
[00:28] <Casi|UDL> If there is a will, there is way. Shouldn't be of much concern. I intend to play when finished.
[00:28] <Sask> Leveling has to be hard....
[00:28] <Neo-Bahamut> It's just a matter of how much time and effort each person is willing to expend. It's not exploiting bugs, or doing something unfair, it's just playing like a maniac.
[00:28] <Kheldon> IMO powerlevelling is someone playing a lot and effectively. And as long as they don't cheat or exploit, I don't really care that they play like that.
[00:28] <][nfrared> hehe krane
[00:28] <Icarium> i dont roleplay :(
[00:28] <Derid> It depends on how long you want to put off people getting to the "End Game" (such as pvp/high end mercantiling)
[00:28] <][nfrared> kane*
[00:28] <SoCxRhijord> Blizzard already stated that WoW will be friendly to both Carebears and Powerlevelers. I assume this means that Powerleveling won't cause too much of a ruckus.
[00:28] <shoX> if its allowed then why not? its not an exploit
[00:28] <Sask> Leveling has to take time
[00:28] <Semadin> if powerleveling is easy as it used to be in d2, then there would never be any groups for people who wish to level normally
[00:28] <Malathor> Forcing someone to redo all old content at the same speed is inflicting punishment...if people cant change classes, it makes no sense to eliminate pling
[00:28] <Griffer> the only form that power leveling will affect another person is if there are one time quests that affect the whole server. seeing the same group do every one of those one timers would get a bit frustrating
[00:28] <Whol> Can we sell gold dupes on Ebay?
[00:28] <Ivanushka> depends on how large scale will be on levels
[00:28] <`RaV> Make everyone have their own server... problem solved ;)
[00:28] <Casi|UDL> Making leveling not so hard promotes alts and more game content
[00:28] <Nri> Sask: why the hell should leveling take time ?
[00:28] <r00t_> There will be those who put in more time, who reap more benefits as usual. The powergamers deserve to receive more if they put in more. Diminishing returns on multiple characters seems to be a good idea - maybe have every subsequent character require more experience to level.
[00:28] <Keystone_FoH> good point there mala
[00:28] <Kreugen> I think leveling should occur at a fixed rate, so all 2000ish people on a server are all in the same two zones having a gigantic cocktail party
[00:28] <Ivanushka> will lvl 6 character have chance against lvl 8
[00:29] <Oaksheart> MMORPG players are in a new mindset now, it's not like early EQ anymore with each new one
[00:29] <B_afraid> They can cause cheap playing. If a newb comes in, groups with a lvl 50 dude. thats not playing fair. Make a limit on the level yopu can gruop with, like a 5-10 level difference(eg your lvl 5 can group with lvl 10, but not 11 or over)
[00:29] <Ivanushka> or not
[00:29] <SoCxRhijord> Ivan - Yes
[00:29] <Kubien> I think it needs to be better defined. Are you talking about Power leveling of 1 person playing 24/7 or are you refering to Powerleveling of a high level character leveling a lower level character extreemly fast?
[00:29] <Slansin_FoH> lol Kreugen
[00:29] <Derek> why would you ban people with a canadian IP ?
[00:29] <Nri> if the endgame is PVP then the PVE'ing shouldn't be grinding
[00:29] <Ivanushka> if lvl 10 beats lvl 9 always
[00:29] <Whol> How do we unlock a Force Sensitive Account in WoW
[00:29] <Nihnyes> I think there needs to be powerleveling limits, because people getting to high levels really fast, and only in it for the loot (which of course there are people BENT on loot), and not taking the game for the fantasy genre it is, or the environment is when powerleveling just becomes a massive growth in character population.~
[00:29] <Vinven> I dont care for people going 'OMG Im soo leet I got to 65 in only 4 hours' like its some race, so would be a good idea to put in a little forced downtime for plvlers
[00:29] <note> hail sirs
[00:29] <Oaksheart> its a race to the top, which is good as it spreads out the level range
[00:29] <Galadyn|Thief2> lol
[00:29] <Ivanushka> but if for example lvl 5 can kill lvl 10
[00:29] <SoCxRhijord> Ivanushka - Characters are item dependent.
[00:29] <][nfrared> IF THE world is BIG enough then Power Players can coexist with Weekend Warriors !!
[00:29] <Neo-Bahamut> Ah, now RUSHING is really a pain.
[00:29] <Sask> whats the point pf playing if you dont advance..at your own rate...why not just have everyone level a level every 24hrs then
[00:29] <Ariakas> Will I be able to transfer my star wars character to WoW?
[00:29] <TehSuq> Powerlevelling will be even less of a problem in WoW than any other game so far -- with instancing and randomly located spawns, there's no worry that a powerleveller will camp your uber-exp spot.
[00:29] <Ivanushka> yes
[00:29] <et2112> pl'ing ruins a game because it lets people quickly level up the "flavor of the month" overpowered classes that bring more and more imbalance to the game, it also waters down the uniqueness of different characters/classes since there are so many of them running around
[00:29] <Maus> u shouldnt limit anyones progress, thats just lame
[00:29] <Kreugen> yeah the question isn't worded well at all
[00:29] <Casi|UDL> You want to promote small scale PvP. Factioning player bases does not accomplish this.
[00:29] <shoX> level spread is a result
[00:29] <Oberon> Consider the leading game in the US has powerleveing I think someone likes it
[00:29] <Neo-Bahamut> Powerleveling is fine, but rushing a lower leveled character is not.
[00:29] <Ivanushka> but in some games a few levels higher and you waste other one
[00:29] <`RaV> et2112: Makes everyone level the same speed... what's the point?
[00:29] <Ariakas> how do we get to the planes of power?
[00:30] <Jaenos> You can't stop people from playing the game.
[00:30] <Derid> For many of us old-time ORPG players, the End-Game is all that we are interested in, we have already whacked 10 million or so Mobs. Whacking Mobs will never change much
[00:30] <Nihnyes> powerleveling eventually leads to too many unappreciative people
[00:30] <PsychicOracle> Isn't that just from EQ?
[00:30] <Ivanushka> of course lvl 50 will be strong
[00:30] <PsychicOracle> Planes of Power?
[00:30] <ariqs> I wish there wasn't level requirements on items. There is a lot of fun involved in making a low level char strong after you've played one char too long
[00:30] <B_afraid> planes of power!! STFU THIS ISNT EQ!! sorry mods, had to get that out
[00:30] <Ivanushka> and will die less to lvl 30
[00:30] <SoCxRhijord> The Idea of high level characters giving good usable items to new characters will always be.
[00:30] <Slansin_FoH> I plan on powerlevelling as fast as I possibly can, and then spend my time griefing in PvP zones.
[00:30] <TehSuq> ET2112: Flavor of the month causes powerlevelling; powerlevelling doesn't cause a Flavor of the Month. So long as Bliz releases a well-balanced game and doesn't MAJORLY buff/nerf after release, there shouldn't BE a flavor of the month.
[00:30] <Ivanushka> but lvl 30 maybe should have chance to do something
[00:30] <Malkin> Kheldon I say its not a problem :) Everyone plays for himself, so why would it matter if the guy who you dont know next to you is 100 leves higher? If he steals all the mobs just go to instanced dungeon