[00:01] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> /topic #worldofwarcraft
[00:01] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> *** World of Warcraft Community Chat in progress!***
[00:01] <Dariuas> Beautiful
[00:01] * Dariuas changes topic to '*** World of Warcraft Community Chat in progress!***'
[00:01] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Greetings and thank you for attending tonight's World of Warcraft Community Chat. I will be your moderator for this evening.
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Basically what we will be doing is posting a topic for you all to discuss. After we post each topic we will unmoderate the
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> chat and give you 10 to 15 minutes to discuss it. Please stay on topic, normal channel rules apply.
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> The log of this chat will later be posted on http://wow.stratics.com so be sure to tell your friends if they missed it.
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay here goes the first topic
[00:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 1. How do you feel about the introducing of the Gnome race in the game?
[00:03] * Dariuas sets mode: -m
[00:03] <Valconeye> Love it
[00:03] <Shinokk> Cool
[00:03] <Pepe> could care less
[00:03] <Drew|> Must Punt Gnomes.
[00:03] <Zoranis> Own =D
[00:03] <E_Ragnarok> :E
[00:03] <VicVega> gnomes rule
[00:03] <Jaenos> Lame.
[00:03] <Talrias> Hello :)
[00:03] <B_afraid> I felt it necessary
[00:03] <Oaksheart> kawaii kekekeke
[00:03] <Hignus> would rather have elfs
[00:03] <Kubien> don't see why not
[00:03] <NeoGuybrush> I like it! Its good to see a race that isnt purely about attacking
[00:03] <visible> YES GNOMES
[00:03] <Screams> i hate gnomes
[00:03] <NekkeN> wohoo
[00:03] <Xantric> be cool
[00:03] <Wolfen> They're okay
[00:03] <Vinven> I think its an interesting race, good possibilities
[00:03] <SoCxRhijord> It was unexpected
[00:03] <Aurelius> Well, gnomes are kinda weak, but it adds variety
[00:03] <Derek> they are cute
[00:03] <Count-Isaac> Nothing wrong with gmonish people
[00:03] <TraHPhiC_Treehugger> I'm cool with it
[00:03] <zdlr> hey Talrias
[00:03] <adonys> don'tcare
[00:03] <Samus> Love gnomes! So cute!
[00:03] <Shinokk> I was worried. Bu the design was cool
[00:03] <Hignus> are there any DEVS in here or just us
[00:03] <Mantus{TR}> That's like a 2 minute topic. Like the idea
[00:03] <Maus> shin kickers own
[00:03] <krekin> Love the gnomes.
[00:03] <Dariuas> I wana be a gnome!
[00:03] <Talrias> ah hi zdlr!
[00:03] <visible> I only play a gnome if i get to ride other gnomes as my steed.
[00:03] <NeoGuybrush> Gnomes get TANKS. thats like...cool
[00:03] <B_afraid> But my Taurens gonna OWN them...dont see how they can compete
[00:03] <TraHPhiC_Treehugger> good to know about their history and connection to WC2
[00:03] <klyss> I like it, as it's not as damn cliche as most fantasy game races
[00:03] <visible> that will rock
[00:03] <Trige> this is dumb rofl
[00:03] <Ether> gnomes r k3w1
[00:03] <TehSuq> I will be a Gnome. I'm absolutely thrilled they've got 'em. I love to be a cute-and-cuddly race; it makes it that much more humiliating for the enemy when I kill them. >=)
[00:03] <RAL> this is gonna turn in to a spam fest:P
[00:03] <Aurelius> im not gonna play as one
[00:03] <speed898> pigtails on the female gnomes look funny
[00:03] <visible> I only play a gnome if i get to ride other gnomes as my steed.
[00:03] <Screams> this game already is starting to look retarded
[00:03] <Pepe> yeah really, any blizzard representativs here?
[00:03] <Kubien> it's nice to have a short race, short races are a lot of fun to play perspective wise.
[00:03] <Vinven> plus if we get bored we can punt the gnome
[00:03] <B_afraid> O my god...so much chatter!
[00:03] <Samus> Plus, what a great story idea, all of them having lost their homes. Makes for an interesting future.
[00:03] <klyss> I mean, who needs more bloomin six foot tall blonde elves with ninja archer skill :P
[00:03] <Wedge> as long as gnomes get fishing rods and hats..
[00:03] <Aurelius> im out, this sucks, lol
[00:03] <Trige> CAN WE PLZ BE TROLLZ
[00:03] <thenewrick> Every game needs a super shorty meek race, gnomes are just a perfect example of this in a fantasy setting. aka gnomes rule
[00:03] <Oaksheart> do male gnomes look like David the gnome
[00:03] <NeoGuybrush> Gnomes get tanks and sniper rifles. How could they not be so damn cool? Plus they can help dwarves, make a killing making items and generally rock
[00:03] <Wolfen> I might play a gnome rogue
[00:03] <Screams> TROLLZ LOLZ
[00:03] <Jawnee> Personally I think they did a fantastic job. Smaller than EQ gnomes from the looks of em... I dunno makes for a very unique race being that tiny.
[00:03] <Valconeye> Gnomes are a perfect edition, they have been out of the story for some time, Its about time the get some attention!
[00:03] <Neo-Bahamut> What's an MMORPG without Gnomes:P
[00:04] <Screams> LOLZ TROLLSZ
[00:04] <Errorist> goblins would have been cooler imo, but oh well
[00:04] <Trige> LOLZ
[00:04] <shoX> well they're cute and charming ;)
[00:04] <Screams> ROFL
[00:04] <Trige> TROLLZZZZZZZZ
[00:04] <Chichis> i eat gnomes
[00:04] <Cynian> They're going to be the least played race in WoW, but who else were you expecting? Pandaren's? Please. At least with Gnomes we get the neat story of gnomeragan.
[00:04] <MadHatter|work> I think it's LAME that you purposely misleaded WoW Fans by saying there would be DEVELOPERS HERE TONIGHT! F U I'm out
[00:04] <B_afraid> id play a gnome magic class if anything
[00:04] <Screams> TROLLZ WOULD OWNZ
[00:04] <Screams> LOLZ
[00:04] <SoCxRhijord> Gnomes will probably be most dependent on their gear.
[00:04] <Screams> LOLZ
[00:04] <Ether> gnomes r binge drinkers
[00:04] <Jaenos> They were made obsolete in Warcraft III by making the Dwarven race a technological power. They very history of the gnomes sounds like an April Fools joke. There were better races to add and find the Gnome inclusion weak and lazy on Blizzard's part.
[00:04] <visible> hahahahha this chat is insane
[00:04] <Trige> TROLLZ OWNZ ALLZ
[00:04] <Hellscream|work> lol
[00:04] <E_Ragnarok> ...
[00:04] <Vinven> as long as theres no hairy footed halflings, gnomes are fine
[00:04] <Screams> omgz stop using capz lolz!!
[00:04] <Radlin-SH-> Gnomes were a perfect addition to the Alliance. Blizzard needed a race that would be viable in both engineering and magic for the Alliance. Gnomes kill two birds with one stone. That, and I love the animation. SOmewhat like TaruTaru from FFXI, but without the little black dot noses
[00:04] <shoX> can we eat a gnome?
[00:04] <Bink|Randy> lolirl
[00:04] <Screams> rofllflf
[00:04] <jumbojack> FoH 4 LYFE!
[00:04] <Samus> The gnomes are beautifully designed.
[00:04] <Screams> oh my
[00:04] <Screams> roleplayers suck.
[00:04] <Casi|UDL> turn the morons off =/
[00:04] <Keystone> hah jumo(
[00:05] <Kheldon> I think they look too....cute :P
[00:05] <B_afraid> can we play gnome soccer with my Brazillian Tauren team?
[00:05] <Trige> TROLLZ ROXORZ
[00:05] <jumbojack> FoH 4 LYFE!1!one!
[00:05] <NeoGuybrush> gnomes are basically drinking buddies and inventor slaves to the dwarves. but thats still good.
[00:05] <Screams> lolz!!!!!!!!!!!
[00:05] <Count-Isaac> It seems unfair that the Alliance has both the tiny races now
[00:05] <Radlin-SH-> I love the anime-ish look they gave to them
[00:05] <Pepe> can we talk about what's really important: PVP
[00:05] <TehSuq> I just can't figure out one thing: is the "G" silent in Gnome, so it sounds like the city in Alaska? Or is it actually pronounced? If so, just sotto voce, or is it a real letter to be pronounced with pride and honor?
[00:05] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Please stay on topic those of you that are diverting from it.
[00:05] <zdlr> I agree Pepe
[00:05] <Radlin-SH-> I don't really think size will be a major factor in the game
[00:05] <jumbojack> i want to pk teh noobz
[00:05] <Screams> pvp
[00:05] <Screams> yes
[00:05] <Bink|Randy> this chat is ridiculous
[00:05] <NeoGuybrush> the "g" is not pronounced
[00:05] <thenewrick> Dwarves are short and wide, I wouldnt call them a tiny race. They are about as wide as a Tauren I think?
[00:05] <Testaoq> hey sexy
[00:05] <Drew|> I want to PK koreans
[00:05] <Kubien> Pronounced nome
[00:05] <shoX> how do you know that after not seeying them moving around the bushes ? too little info about gnomes
[00:05] <Radlin-SH-> The fact that they are small does NOT mean Tauren can punt them
[00:05] <Screams> like, nomes.
[00:05] <Pepe> i'M WITH dREW
[00:05] <B_afraid> well if gnomes have alot of intelligence, their magic will kick ass
[00:05] <jumbojack> damn koreans
[00:05] <Screams> gah-nomes
[00:05] <zdlr> So what type of pvp do you wat to see?
[00:05] <NekkeN> I think you should add Homosexual Jackrabbits
[00:05] <Pepe> all out PVP
[00:05] <Screams> like
[00:05] <Screams> rvr pvp
[00:05] <SoCxRhijord> The natural characteristic of gnomes to be small is what leads me to beleive they will be more dependent on equipment rather than an Orc.
[00:05] <Vinven> its not G nome, just nome
[00:05] <Derek> i think we can remoderate as there is nothing really useful now heh
[00:05] <Trige> WUZUP DAWGZ
[00:05] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:06] <Jawnee> Please stay on topic guys...
[00:06] <Kheldon> I'd like to know the backstory for Gnomes going Warlokish though
[00:06] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 2. With the recent revealing of the tradeskills and how they work, what do you think about the fact that there is no failure chance when creating an item
[00:06] <Jawnee> Yes warlock doesnt make a lot of sense to me either Kheldon
[00:06] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:06] <Screams> hay trige!!!
[00:06] <B_afraid> I think its a gerat idea, alleviates frustrarion
[00:06] <SoCxRhijord> That's a great thing
[00:06] <Wolfen> I love it!
[00:06] <Kheldon> I don't like it.
[00:06] <Oaksheart> What do you get when you fail?
[00:06] <E_Ragnarok> lol
[00:06] <ariqs> I think it depends on how it is implemented, and we won't know that until we play the game
[00:06] <][nfrared> good idea
[00:06] <visible> yeah dont mind it
[00:06] <Bink|Randy> it's a horrible idea
[00:06] <majeo> Such a system is friendlier to the weekend warrior.
[00:06] <E_Ragnarok> its kinda stupid
[00:07] <Kubien> I love it
[00:07] <Drew|> I don't like it -t akes away the realism.
[00:07] <TraHPhiC_Treehugger> I like it
[00:07] <Smeg> its great, control it through drop rates, not failure rates.
[00:07] <E_Ragnarok> everyone will have uberquality items
[00:07] <Karunel> Items will flood the market if they always suceed. At the same time, it's easier and funnier for players
[00:07] <AgentXer0> scroll
[00:07] <visible> it adds cartoon fun
[00:07] <Jawnee> Though gnomes aren't exactly known for finding out all the details about something before they delve into it apparently.
[00:07] <AgentXer0> scroll
[00:07] <Screams> sounds retarded then
[00:07] <Pepe> tradeskills = teh sux
[00:07] <Shinokk> I dont like the recipe thing
[00:07] <Screams> G Nomes
[00:07] <shoX> Its totally ok , decreases frustration , as was said
[00:07] <Kheldon> Why not make PvEing that way? No way you can lose against a mob you attacked.
[00:07] <E_Ragnarok> and there wont be a chance to fail at making em
[00:07] <Ally> I don't like it.
[00:07] <et2112> its fine, crafting sucks anyway
[00:07] <Derid> Yeah people are going to make it anyway if they can, why not save em time?
www.WoWLands.com)
[00:07] <jumbojack> FoH will roxor the koreans in pvp, oso 1337
[00:07] <Screams> hey ya, by outkast
[00:07] <Valconeye> all i have to say, if there is no failure, then the material should be harder to get than normal
[00:07] <SoCxRhijord> There is no reason to give the player the ability to make the item if they can fail it.
[00:07] <Zoranis> better then eq's =p
[00:07] <B_afraid> o my god...how can you make heads ot tails of thid crap...
[00:07] <TehSuq> Failure isn't necessary to keep tradeskills viable; however, I REALLY want to know if there is a separate pool for skill points. I'd hate to have to nerf my main or start an alt just to do some crafting.
[00:07] <Samus> There are better ways not to flood the market, Karunel. Like, make the materials more difficult to find.
[00:07] <Vinven> heh not sure really, used to endlessly clicking and failing for tradeskills, but to know that after all your hard work on an item and spending lots of coin that it wont fail, can be a blessing
[00:07] <fiz> I like it better than SWG. Hopefully, the trade classes will not reward grinding/milling to Master, then making stuff.
[00:07] <Drew|> Can we craft Koreans?
[00:07] <thenewrick> No failure is good, as long as its not a tedius process getting materials and skill. Gives player more insentive to craft when they know they cant fail
[00:07] <Tamil> Krieger
[00:07] <Screams> stop spamming
[00:07] <Trige> TROLLZ
[00:07] <Screams> lolz!
[00:07] <Bink|Randy> only noobs do tradeskills ne wayz
[00:07] <Neo-Bahamut> I like it. It makes the focus be on adventuring to get the components instead of grinding
[00:07] <Jawnee> No failure saves players time... BUT its not very realistic and I'm worried about item overflow
[00:07] <adonys> huh?!! no failures?
[00:07] <B_afraid> ban trige please...hes troll obsessed
[00:07] <Casi|UDL> Just talk and tell me what I don't know, and save me from the moronic drivel pls
[00:07] * Pepe nods to Randy
[00:07] <shoX> but I dont want that game to pretend 'everything is easy'
[00:07] <Guest84734> wow is everyone in the world in this
[00:07] <Karunel> Samus, but materials at least some are supossed to be common
[00:07] <Screams> i don't think
[00:07] <Hignus> I think materials will be rare
[00:08] <Karunel> I mean wood is gonna be something rare?
[00:08] <Karunel> :p
[00:08] <Tetrian> heya :D
[00:08] <Derek> is it harder to learn a formula then ? I think that if its really hard to learn then its okay that it would succede when you make it. If its easy both ways though that seems TOO easy
[00:08] <TehSuq> Still, there should be SOME benefit to higher levels. Faster crafting, more efficient (uses less ingredients), higher quality, or something.
[00:08] <Screams> that there are 6 billion p
[00:08] <Screams> people here
[00:08] <B_afraid> pretend? what do you mean shox?
[00:08] <SoCxRhijord> Item overflow is a good point. But I think WoW players will be much better equiped with player made items, rather than drops
[00:08] * Isenbright has joined #worldofwarcraft
[00:08] <_egg> it boils down to either frustration finding the materials, or frustration at a lower chance of creating them
[00:08] <NekkeN> Trige wanted me to pass this along. He thinks you should add TROLLZZZZZZZ
[00:08] <Isenbright> good day
[00:08] <poro> actually, it's quite realistic for items to succeed all the time..there just should be different quality levels
[00:08] <Screams> there should be difficulty
[00:08] <Samus> Maybe certain materials, for very uber items, could be difficult to find.
[00:08] <_egg> personally i'd rather not have to run around finding stuff all the time
[00:08] <jumbojack> i think there shouldnt be gays in the milatery
[00:08] -Trige:#worldofwarcraft- TROLLZ OWNZ FORZ LIFEZ
[00:08] <E_Ragnarok> well, either the materials are rare, or then put the failure chance
[00:08] -Trige:#worldofwarcraft- TROLLZ OWNZ FORZ LIFEZ
[00:08] <Pepe> I thought Trolls were in the game
[00:08] <Karunel> That's ok
[00:08] <Karunel> But still
[00:08] <Ivanushka> I think materials for Items will be harder to obtain in Quests so no need for failure..it would suck to get components after
[00:08] <B_afraid> good ;point semus
[00:08] <Screams> lolz
[00:08] <Vinven> yes saves time and money Id beleive, just think spending a good portion of your time an money trying to craft an awesome weapon, just to find out that you failed
[00:08] <Karunel> Common items will be flooding the market
[00:08] <Ivanushka> 30 hours of playing so it fails
[00:08] <BlueDragon> It balances the fact you need a trade-receipe to make an item which will most likely be destroyed after making the item
[00:08] <E_Ragnarok> just k-line him
[00:08] <Screams> rofl.
[00:08] <Errorist> LMFAO
[00:08] <Karunel> thus depricing FAST
[00:08] <Valconeye> bye bye trige
[00:08] <Maus> he alrdy had a last warning
[00:08] <Screams> <3 trige
[00:08] <Cynian> Anybody who's been a serious crafter will realize that this is going to be a good thing for them. Critical Failures were frusturating and a cheap way to avoid market inflation that really wasn't effective. I'd rather see the failure causing the person to die, but I definitely don't want to have to spend another 3 hours hunting the materials because something my character cannot even control caused a failure.
[00:08] <Maus> ban ffs?
[00:08] <SoCxRhijord> This leads to the point that items required for awesome weapons will be extremely hard to find
[00:08] <Samus> Wouldn't it suck if you went to the top of Black Rock Spire, or something, for a certain material, and then failed at using it?
[00:08] <jumbojack> i think there shouldnt be gays in the milatery
[00:08] <Galadyn|Thief2> rawrawr
[00:08] <Samus> That's what I meant, Cynian.
[00:08] * Drew| has quit IRC (Autokilled: Enough of your racial comments.)
[00:09] <Malkin> gotta be super fast reader to read anything in here lol :)
[00:09] <Jawnee> yeah it would samus BUT
[00:09] <Screams> shake it, shake it shake it
[00:09] <Nihnyes> hi
[00:09] <SoCxRhijord> So be prepared for item hunts
[00:09] <Tetrian> Gunndog
[00:09] <visible> i think there should be grays in the milertrary too
[00:09] <Vinven> or if there were failures, make it so that it doesnt take all your items used to craft it
[00:09] <Guest84734> are you only gonna be allowed 1 job???
[00:09] <Jawnee> if you are high enough level to be gathering items from blackrock spire
[00:09] <Isenbright> anyone (preferably timezone around GMT or +1) in search of a guild?
[00:09] <Jawnee> your chance of failure by that point shoule be minimal
[00:09] <Kubien> All that failures do is cause unneeded frustration and wastes a lot of invested time. If it's going to take a long time to get materils to craft and item, and you have to crafts 100s of items for a skillup, failures are just pure furstration and unnessacry
[00:09] <Galadyn|Thief2> oh there's some kinda dev chat happening soon isn't there
[00:09] <ariqs> don't believe so, guest
[00:09] <Dariuas> Isenbright, this is not a recruitement chat
[00:09] <Samus> I just don't think that failing is the answer. It's a waste, and it isn't fun. And the point of a game is fun.
[00:09] <Galadyn|Thief2> :>
[00:09] <mrONLINE-oOv> THERE IS NO JOBS THIS ISNT NOOB FFXI
[00:09] <Ivanushka> it all depends how easy components are to get
[00:09] <Count-Isaac> are you advertising for a guild? lol
[00:09] <Screams> omg kubien to spam unnecessary crap plz
[00:09] <PsychicOracle> Wow. . .a LOT of people. . .
[00:09] <SoCxRhijord> I beleive the world has items as well, so not all items will come from monsters to craft things.
[00:09] <NekkeN> Trige wants to know why he's banned for showing his love for trollz
[00:09] <Karunel> It's ok that very rare items have a 0% failure chance. Common materials should have it, or at least the possibility of making very poor quality items
[00:09] <Wolfen> To help balance 'no failures' some materials will probably be hard to find
[00:09] <Derek> I think it should either be very hard to learn a formula or very hard to acquire the materials (for rarer items) then it balances the fact you can make it with 100% success
[00:09] <Karunel> that are actually worth nothing
[00:09] <Ivanushka> it could be like trading card game for obtaining components
[00:09] <jumbojack> FOH WILL PWN YOUR BITCH ASS'S, BE WARNED
[00:09] <Screams> who is foh irl
[00:09] <Screams> ?
[00:09] <et2112> lol
[00:09] <Griffer> well your looking at the fact that compnents wont be bought in a store
[00:09] <Nihnyes> wtg jack
[00:09] <Samus> The best items should always be loot, anyhow.
[00:09] <Isenbright> Dariuas sorry
[00:09] <Vinven> Ah shuddup Jumbo
[00:09] <Griffer> you have to gather them
[00:09] <Valconeye> FOH is GAY
[00:09] <Count-Isaac> next topic please..
[00:10] <Oaksheart> this chat needs like 5 people allowed to talk at a time
[00:10] <Jeremias> thanks for the info
[00:10] <Screams> i vote
[00:10] <Screams> to unban
[00:10] <Screams> trige
[00:10] <Errorist> foh is a clan from SB or something I think
[00:10] <E_Ragnarok> ok moderate ta
[00:10] <E_Ragnarok> :p
[00:10] <Vinven> Wil poisons be a tradeskill?
[00:10] <TehSuq> FoH = Flowers of Happiness.
[00:10] <Griffer> so finding components is part of the process
[00:10] <Nihnyes> lol please
[00:10] <SoCxRhijord> Lesser components will probably be sold in stores
[00:10] <Nihnyes> don't turn this into an EQ rant
[00:10] <Griffer> failing after finding those compenents
[00:10] <Screams> unban trige
[00:10] <NekkeN> FoH = Full of Homos
[00:10] <AgentXer0> How can anything constructive come from this if i dont' pay attention for a second i miss 3 pages of text
[00:10] <mrONLINE-oOv> [4:10pm] <Valconeye> FOH is GAY -- almost as gay as your site no?
[00:10] <Griffer> serves lil purpose
[00:10] <Malkin> rofl NekkeN
[00:10] <B_afraid> well obviously, they will have item RARITY, meaning for instance diamonds will be harder to get than bronze(just an example)
[00:10] <Screams> unban trige
[00:10] <Jaenos> I feel sorry to those going to try to edit this and make it look like an actual conversation
[00:10] <Radlin-SH-> One question : How will Blizz keep the flow of the markets in tune. I mean to say, how will the stop overproduction of the high level items from crafting?
[00:10] <B_afraid> lol
[00:10] <E_Ragnarok> its gettin offtopic :F
[00:10] <kane> wonder what the odds are of any of the devs actually reading all this ;o
[00:10] * Maus nods to jaen
[00:10] <Djharske[MDoM]> ;F
[00:10] <Nihnyes> ah the mmorpg community~
[00:10] <shoX> rarity is something everyone needs so its not rarity anymore
[00:10] <SoCxRhijord> Radlin
[00:10] <B_afraid> my nose is bleeding...
[00:10] <Maus> u guys really should publisise this so much...
[00:10] <Maus> shouldnt*
[00:10] <SoCxRhijord> Radlin - Components would have to be extremely rare for high level items.
[00:10] <Khurag> If you can find diamonds, what good will they be for? Armour or Weapons?
[00:11] <Malkin> only 239 ppl :)
[00:11] <Pepe> _.,+'``++,._.,+'``++,._ Let's talk about PVP already plz _.,+'``++,._.,+'``++,._
[00:11] <B_afraid> JUST AN EXAMPLE I SAID!
[00:11] <zdlr> i agree Maus lol
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> Still, in diablo we saw people were able to exploit certain bugs
[00:11] <Dariuas> Please stay on topic!!!
[00:11] <TehSuq> Rarity won't do it -- especially since Bliz is planning to have no item decay. Even a rare thing becomes abundant if it enters the game but never leaves.
[00:11] <Vinven> Hopefully they will learn from others mistakes and not make tradeskills including poison if it is a tradeskill, not based off rare drops from lower level creatures
[00:11] <Sez> hey all
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> in order to get things
[00:11] <Maus> yo sez
[00:11] <Sez> omg maus
[00:11] <Sez> the chatting
[00:11] <Sez> lol
[00:11] <Nihnyes> []====|>>>>>> THE SWORD!!!
[00:11] <SoCxRhijord> Bugs in MMORPGs is a completely different thing
[00:11] <Sez> ty!
[00:11] <shoX> collect rare stuff ~~means camp a rare mob spawn?
[00:11] <Maus> lets bail man
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> In most real MMORPGs you can get high level things
[00:11] <Kaison> I wish to play wow right now
[00:11] <Maus> chute ffs
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> but the crafting rate
[00:11] <Maus> < noob
[00:11] <Radlin-SH-> slows the markets
[00:11] <Nihnyes> don't we all Kaison.
[00:11] <Isenbright> Hey Radlin
[00:11] <SoCxRhijord> I beleive the crafting rate will be much higher in wow
[00:12] <SoCxRhijord> Becasue of this No Fail thing
[00:12] <Derek> With no item decay i think there should be a way that items leave the game world ...OR a constant influx of new items. The first one seems easier although
[00:12] <Radlin-SH-> I'm just wondering, if crafting gets out of hand, how can they regulate the markets?
[00:12] <Radlin-SH-> crafting rate is 100%
[00:12] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:12] <Dariuas> Guys
[00:12] <Dariuas> PLEASE stay on topic. If you don't, we will remove you with out warning.
[00:12] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Allright I see lots of comments here and idea's from the community, that is good. Please make sure to continue with constructive comments, this is easier and more effective for everyone.
[00:12] <Dariuas> We do realize this is spammfull, and it maybe hard to read everything people say, but do your best. If not, say bye bye.
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder>
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 3. A topic that has risen many times is Character Collision. How do you feel about "CD" in MMOGs. Are you for, again? Is there a middle ground?
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> oups
[00:13] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 3. A topic that has risen many times is Character Collision. How do you feel about "CD" in MMOGs. Are you for, again? Is there a middle ground?
[00:13] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:13] <SoCxRhijord> I'm for it
[00:13] <Keystone> for it~
[00:13] <Ivanushka> what is character collision?
[00:13] <Vinven> CD?
[00:13] <][nfrared> go for a middle ground
[00:13] <Ralan> for
[00:13] <Karunel> For. It's good for combat
[00:13] <Qwixux> .
[00:13] <klyss> ... What is CD? *feels stupid*
[00:13] <E_Ragnarok> i didnt even understand that
[00:13] <toasterboy> ?..
[00:13] <kane> its better with out it
[00:13] <ariqs> what is character collision?
[00:13] <Amywen> hmm i dont like that
[00:13] <AgentXer0> for it
[00:13] <Karunel> More realistic
[00:13] <Keystone> not very realistic if you can run straight through people
[00:13] <Malkin> Collision - no. Maybe only for PVP server if there is any? ":)
[00:13] <Nihnyes> lol
[00:13] <Radlin-SH-> Character Collision, could someone elaborate for me?
[00:13] <Smeg> thank god, no Tauren walls
[00:13] <Count-Isaac> doesn't really matter to me
[00:13] <Samus> Certain things should have collision, and some things shouldn't. Like other characters.
[00:13] <VicVega> as long as people can't push off cliffs when you are afk
[00:13] <klyss> ooh, pushthrough?
[00:13] <B_afraid> I like limited CG, meaning you know youve hit somthing, but it cant block you
[00:13] <toasterboy> ffs stop spamming me stupid POS
[00:13] <klyss> I like it
[00:13] <Wolfen> I'd like it, but some will find a way to abuse it
[00:13] <kane> i hate geting stuck at raids wheres theres like 50 people ;\
[00:13] <SoCxRhijord> Character Collision makes PvP and fighting much much MUCH more interesting
[00:13] <Kheldon> I think there should be character collision. If not in cities to prevent griefing but out in the wild to add more to fighting. PvP as well as PvE
[00:13] <Samus> Otherwise, you have griefers blocking doorways.
[00:13] <Nihnyes> CD is good
[00:13] <][nfrared> collision is good, take all your stamina away or something
[00:13] <Khurag> Running through people is rediculous
[00:13] <B_afraid> CD is bad
[00:13] <Tuco> I'm for the Final Fantasy variant in which one is able to 'slowly' move past or through another Player Character.
[00:14] <Vinven> oh, no we shouldnt be able to run through eachother, its bad for dueling n pvp
[00:14] <TehSuq> Without colision, there's huge troubles for PvP -- you cannot "protect" your vital-but-vulnerable support groups and nukers.
[00:14] <Jawnee> Character Collision is what keeps players "avatars" from walking directly through one another
[00:14] <Nihnyes> blocking, on the other hand, is bad
[00:14] <Count-Isaac> both have disadvantages/advantages that have to be weighted and a decision should be based on that
[00:14] <SoCxRhijord> The Strategy involved with CD makes it great.
[00:14] <Casi|UDL> Yes character collision.
[00:14] <Karunel> For example, take DAoC. What's the point of forming a line if I can eeeeh just run trough it :|?
[00:14] <Oberon> character collision is fine as long as it doesn't turn into those opening days of UO, when everyone tried to leave the inn at once
[00:14] <Tetrian> IF its going to be a little bit based on pvp, ala say, DAOC I feel CD should be in, DAOC would be alot better if it was in, If mainly pve there isnt really a point to it
[00:14] <Casi|UDL> Realistic
[00:14] <E_Ragnarok> oh
[00:14] <Kubien> Collision is not nessacary and only gives griefs ways to exploit it to anoy the hell out of poeple or ruin thier time. You honestly never even notice collision unless it effects you in a bad way.
[00:14] <B_afraid> or enable it FOR pvp only?
[00:14] <Maus> wtf is cd...
[00:14] <Sask> ughh Ati's Tech chat was nothing like this spammin
[00:14] <][nfrared> Don't be afraid to add stratagy to the game with things like collision
[00:14] <Maus> oh, coll detection
[00:14] <mrONLINE-oOv> collision not needed, next question
[00:14] <B_afraid> character collision
[00:14] <Derek> Id say middle ground. Too much collisions would be crazy in a town. But constant running through a character who is standing there is silly.
[00:14] <SoCxRhijord> WoW will have a lot of AOE Spells, and CD will work very well with that.
[00:14] <Nihnyes> Maybe there should be designated areas
[00:14] <E_Ragnarok> well its stupid if you can run through people :p, more like push them aside or something :]
[00:14] <ariqs> I thought character collision was already present in today's mmorpgs
[00:14] <Nihnyes> that disable CD somehow
[00:14] <Vinven> PVP only character collision would be fine
[00:14] <Nihnyes> like around a building?
[00:14] <Khurag> Pushing aside would be useful
[00:14] <et2112> need collision detection... not having it generally leads to crappy exploits and tactics in daoc like "stacking" pbae casters
[00:14] <shoX> I support an idea of giving full game client avaible to download , CD is something I really dont need to have
[00:14] <Samus> It serves a purpose, Ragnarok.
[00:14] <Ivanushka> collision can protect wizards and other important characters like protecting him in circle
[00:14] <BlueDragon> Character collision makes it more real, but also makes it more complicated to get around.. it also allows for people to block certain tight enterances perhaps?
[00:14] <TehSuq> In PvP, tanks are supposed to PROTECT the healers and nukers. Without collision detection, that becomes an exercise in either futility or frustration.
[00:14] <r00t_> yup
[00:14] <Tetrian> Collision Makes large scale battles more strategic, since people have to think about where to put themselves in order to protect something like casters
[00:14] <mrONLINE-oOv> they wanna stack? nuke em with aoe
[00:14] <Jaenos> While it does create problems for trapping people. For example in UO it was done to be a player killer trick; however WoW, without a pvp problem the only way to exploit it is to trap someone fleeing from an NPC. So really it's not that big of the deal, I am personally against it, for one reason that if there was player collision, jerks of the world would unite and screw up systems to places you want to get it.
[00:15] <Ivanushka> but if you throw 10 ppl in front of wizard
[00:15] <Count-Isaac> ivansuska has a point
[00:15] <kane> it should be there with mobs but not other players then
[00:15] <Ivanushka> and he gets through to wizard
[00:15] <][nfrared> right keep collision, for stratagy purpose
[00:15] <SoCxRhijord> Perhaps a system like in UO - where you can "SHOVE" people out of the way if you have MAX Stanima
[00:15] <Samus> Character collision is a griefer's paradise.
[00:15] <Nihnyes> what if there were designated areas, somehow set out, that in those areas, CD would be cancelled in a way, like around buildings or in small entrances where it could be difficult, because we really don't want blocking of banks and such.
[00:15] <TehSuq> Perhaps they need to implement collision detection ONLY in the PvP zones. That way they save the processor power in general but get the vital protective capabilities for PvP.
[00:15] <|X|DoMi> keep it to a minimum
[00:15] <Casi|UDL> Is there going tyo be a PvP dedicated server?
[00:15] <Vinven> shoving people that are afk could be bad though
[00:15] <Ivanushka> collision adds to strategy
[00:15] <kane> can you SHOVE people into lava? ;o
[00:15] <Samus> Sounds like a lot of crazy programming they can do without, Nihnyes.
[00:15] <Ivanushka> have melee in front
[00:15] <E_Ragnarok> kane, lol :p
[00:15] <Karunel> A way to prevent the exploting thingie is make a /warp button or something that moves you some metters away from where you are, in case you get stuck accidentally or due to a stupid griefer who thinks he's cool for abusing CD.
[00:15] <Tetrian> Good idea imo Tehsuq :)
[00:15] <Ivanushka> and casters behind
[00:15] <Vinven> If I was afk and you could shove me into a monster or to death etc
[00:15] <Nihnyes> yea that's also the problem i was thiking aobut Samu
[00:15] <Nihnyes> s
[00:15] <Neo-Bahamut> Seems to me the advantges of no-collision (less processing required, thus less lag, plus eliminates a griefing method) outway the advantages of collision (prevents people from running through a line of tanks, "realism")
[00:16] <Ivanushka> still there are ranged monsters
[00:16] <Ivanushka> who can hit from afar
[00:16] <Cynian> colission's going to make it difficult for players that are getting lower pings to the server, espically in PvP
[00:16] <r00t_> collision should only work in pvp zones, yea
[00:16] <Jaenos> Or for example, ina PvP war zone, look at the Warcraft III for an example of how surrounding a hero is fatal
[00:16] <Khurag> a warp button would be abused terribly
[00:16] <B_afraid> LIMITED CD! BEST OF BOTH WORLDS! you KNOW youve hot something...you cant go right through it, but you nearly do...like in EQ right now. And maybe have full CD for fights and duels...that might work
[00:16] <Nihnyes> it'd be hard, probably not worth the trouble
[00:16] <SoCxRhijord> a /warp would be even more exploitable
[00:16] <Ivanushka> so it wont get abused
[00:16] <Samus> See, if you put in Character Collision to solve one problem, it creates ten more.
[00:16] <B_afraid> *hit
[00:16] <Kheldon> Well turning collision off in settlement areas would remove most of the related griefing, wouldn't it?
[00:16] <Ivanushka> but PC chararters shouldnt collied
[00:16] <NekkeN> whats the topic?
[00:16] <E_Ragnarok> if you add character collision, people will block you and all
[00:16] <E_Ragnarok> ;p
[00:16] <Nihnyes> Character Collision Nekken
[00:16] <B_afraid> character collision
[00:16] <Tetrian> Neo, no collision detection pretty much destroyed Daoc realm warfare as it was originally thought out and explained :X its more of a trainwreck now til the key classes have gone down
[00:16] <Ivanushka> it would make fight less fun if you for example get stuck or something accidently :)
[00:16] <Kubien> Shoving only would create problems. There where plent of times in EQ when someone would levitate and afk person and push them into a pvp area and kill them.
[00:16] <SoCxRhijord> Perhaps Collision could only happen with Monsters
[00:16] <Neo-Bahamut> you can block enterences to popular areas...
[00:16] <Kheldon> Where as out in the open, PvP areas, PvE areas it's turned on to add more tactics and strategy to the game. :)
[00:16] <Malkin> Kheldon so no collision in town but yes everywhere else? :))))
[00:16] <angrard> Shadowbane had a skill tanks could use to become impassible and block LOS. That's cool because then you can have it in PvP and not have it in towns and whatnot
[00:16] <TehSuq> Good idea, B_AFRAID. Something like "anybody within my character gets snared to 25% movement rate while they're inside my footprint."
[00:16] <NekkeN> Nice, Just leave it like daoc imo
[00:16] <Smeg> surrounding someone is extremely hard in a real 3d enviroment compared to 2d top down war3 style
[00:16] <Kheldon> Malkin: Yes
[00:16] <Nihnyes> yea that sucked Kubien lol
[00:17] <Casi|UDL> add char collision but add a way to get around it that requires thought
[00:17] <][nfrared> and if the beast is that freaking huge...NO CD through it
[00:17] <Jaenos> I hate walking through people in games, but the facts are simple, people will abuse it if there were collision
[00:17] <B_afraid> exactly tehsuq
[00:17] <Casi|UDL> Such as UO had refresh potions.
[00:17] <Ivanushka> you dont have to surroung
[00:17] <Kheldon> There is always a middle ground
[00:17] <Ivanushka> but you can have some in front
[00:17] <Ivanushka> and some behind
[00:17] <Ivanushka> if it goes around
[00:17] <Ivanushka> at least it wont attack
[00:17] <SoCxRhijord> Middle ground can be eliminated with Tiles
[00:17] <Ivanushka> for couple of seconds
[00:17] <Nihnyes> yea thats a good way of designated areas
[00:17] <shoX> I'll leave it to Blizz ..they will make right choice , I wont :)
[00:17] <Nihnyes> just the towns
[00:17] <Damar> hey Argus ^^
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> as long as the ai is smart collision detection is not needed
[00:17] <Smeg> has to be a solid wall, otherwise its easy to get past with straifing
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> ac2 had smart detection
[00:17] <Samus> Plus, in a dungeon crawl, in tighter spaces, a group of ten with collision would really, really suck.
[00:17] <Nihnyes> what about smaller dungeons? those could be included in not having CD also maybe?
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> not needed
[00:17] <Kubien> If you create a wall of tanks to protect casters, a couple AEs and your all dead, so thats not much of a strategy
[00:17] <mrONLINE-oOv> next
[00:17] <Xantric> b/leave
[00:17] <Kreugen> funny, i just got stuck on a mass of people when I zoned in eq
[00:17] <Malkin> Kheldon Im up for that :) Or only in PVP servers :)
[00:18] <Nihnyes> yea same malk
[00:18] <TehSuq> MRONLINE, collision detection IS needed for PvP, though.
[00:18] <Ivanushka> So in Short..MOB collision yes, PC collision no
[00:18] <Khurag> What if there was no collision in between Party Members
[00:18] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:18] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay thanks for your insights on this questions, your views are quite mixed, but you can agree on certain points. Thats good.
[00:18] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next question
[00:18] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 4. Factional PvP has also been talked about alot; do you feel that Factional PvP is the way to go if PvP exists in the game? If not, why? If so...why? Do you have better suggestions?
[00:18] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:18] <shoX> I demand a war
[00:18] <mrONLINE-oOv> [4:18pm] <TehSuq> MRONLINE, collision detection IS needed for PvP, though. --why?
[00:18] <NekkeN> Imo to solve character collision Wrap them in foam, then when they crash it wont hurt
[00:18] <Vinven> Good vs evil alignment is always the way to go
[00:18] <B_afraid> Ive never tried PvP, so i wouldtn know
[00:18] <Sask> FFA Pvp
[00:18] <Samus> Factional PvP is great for storyline and RP. Sounds like fun.
[00:18] <Karunel> General PvP is important
[00:19] <Radlin-SH-> I love the idea of factional PVP, it allows for more realism
[00:19] <SoCxRhijord> Factional PvP mixed with free for all PvP is the way to go. It's Realistic
[00:19] <angrard> Dread/Darktide server
[00:19] <][nfrared> factional pvp is great idea
[00:19] <Ivanushka> FActional fighting is good if it is limited to areas not near to cities
[00:19] <Neo-Bahamut> Well, it is WARcraft, after all.
[00:19] <Oaksheart> I suppose so, otherwise you end up with lots of random griefing
[00:19] <Eclipser> yes factional pvp has been the winning element of daoc in my opinion
[00:19] <Tetrian> I like it, worked in DaoC - with no communicatione etc :D
[00:19] <NekkeN> make pvp wtf own
[00:19] <Jaenos> It;s warcraft, to not have an eleborate/fun factional pvp system would be complete nonesense.
[00:19] <Kheldon> Factional PvP rocks unless they find a good working open PvP system. (againm a good middle ground can be found here as well)
[00:19] <Vinven> DAOC RvR was awesome, especially the battlegrounds
[00:19] <Casi|UDL> No. It shgould be free for all. It is up to player base to make zones/towns safe
[00:19] <shoX> war is life tho
[00:19] <et2112> it has to be factional to fit in with the warcraft story lines... nuff said
[00:19] <Nihnyes> factional pop can be ok to an extent
[00:19] <Eclipser> give players the chance to play with friends and to pvp with friends
[00:19] <Nihnyes> there's of course disadvantages
[00:19] <Casi|UDL> There should always be bad guys.
[00:19] <Ivanushka> Factional pvp will add spice to game
[00:19] <Derek> Factional PVP will run into problems with guilds
[00:19] <Nihnyes> but in general
[00:19] <Wolfen> Yeah Factional PvP fits the history
[00:19] <Kubien> No pvp > factional pvp >> open pvp. Thats my view.
[00:19] <Khurag> Factional PvP is good. But what if you wanted to start a human bandit guild
[00:19] <Oaksheart> If you leave it to the player base, your game will be terrible. Look at shadowbane
[00:19] <Kheldon> It doesn't have to be all no-PvP or full crazed pointless murduring PvP.
[00:19] <shoX> endless conflict like in Planetside :)
[00:19] <BlueDragon> Completely depends on how they do it
[00:19] <Nihnyes> for realism, factional pvp is good
[00:19] <Karunel> Like having realms battle against each other, but NOT LOCKED alliances like in DAoC PLEASE that gets boring in the end. Maybe some restrictions, but allow freedom for the GMs or even the players to decide who they go war against
[00:19] <Nihnyes> and RPing
[00:19] <SoCxRhijord> Orcs should be able to fight Orcs
[00:19] <NekkeN> Make it so i can kill eclisper
[00:19] <Kreugen> if you don't have all out general PVP, then factional PVP is great yeah
[00:19] <Oberon> As long as people have the opportunity not to participate any type of pvp will be popular
[00:19] <Derid> unlimited PvP is good. whacking mobs is boring.
[00:19] <Tetrian> Kreug :)
[00:19] <r00t_> a certain amount of realism/storyline has to be present. i want an MMORPG that engroses me in the game for many months before it becomes more objective-based
[00:19] <Casi|UDL> Keep in mind your most dedicated playerbase will be PvP based
[00:19] <Vinven> eh, then it because like rallos zek its mayhem
[00:19] <Kreugen> it IS warcraft for christ's sake
[00:19] <][nfrared> if not factional, bruitail guild vs guild. Where if guild A wants to be enemies with guild B they can be. Then their members can attack each other at will
[00:19] <Eclipser> country based pvp is cool
[00:19] <Sask> AC DT had it right
[00:19] <Ivanushka> it is worlf of WARCRAFT :) so there should be war..if there is no faction pvp...there is no...ermm war
[00:19] <Slansin_FoH> Factional PvP is something I am counting on. I'm sick of fighting stupid AI mobs.
[00:20] <Oberon> You force it on people and you'll get 1/4th the sever population
[00:20] <Nihnyes> yea what r00t said
[00:20] <TehSuq> Personally, I LOVE PvP but I HATE PK. (In other words, choosing to fight a war vs. getting murdered at random.) DAoC did this very nicely, and having seen that I'm all in favor of factional war.
[00:20] <Casi|UDL> All the rest of these no PvP newbies craft items until the next cool game comes out
[00:20] <Nihnyes> factional is good, but it should be limited
[00:20] <shoX> PvP - faction wars + arena battles - suits for me
[00:20] <Radlin-SH-> It would be inane for an alliance member to approach a horde member, and not feel any anger towards the other. In order to ensure realism, I think factional PVP is needed. Also, if an alliance person could strut right up to a horde person and walk around their city (assuming they can ward off the NPCs), it would be . . . asinine
[00:20] <Vyck_Drago> ai 4 life!
[00:20] <Cynian> We saw Factional PvP with SWG, which was done poorly and started me thinking that factional PvP is not possible to implement. Instead a DAoC system with looser restrictions to allow for spying (it's not like it didn't happen anyways in DAoC) should be implemented
[00:20] <Karunel> Factional PvP, also, gives pple a reason to work togheter.
[00:20] <Derek> I think there needs to be some way that you arent automatically thrown into a faction depending on a race. That means multiple race guilds will still be able to take part and choose a faction
[00:20] <Tetrian> Fractional pvp daoc style, rocks, but not ala they did in EQ - ends up in unbalanced griefing :x
[00:20] <Nihnyes> or be able to be altered, like another person stated, maybe through Gm's
[00:20] <Jawnee> Personally if you dont have PvP what would the point of factional grouping be anyway?
[00:20] <Kreugen> although I wish some of the races could go horde or alliance when they create the character
[00:20] <Tetrian> man, the spam is sick here:D
[00:20] <Derid> There should be competing racial factions then, as per Orcs v Orcs etc.
[00:20] <Vyck_Drago> based on faction?
[00:20] <r00t_> well thought out yes. i wouldnt expect anything less from Blizzard, who hasn't let me down yet
[00:20] <kane> i think if every server has pvp then it should be factional only outside of duels
[00:20] <Kubien> The problem is, a well intoduced pvp will make a game good. But a badly introduced pvp will completly ruin a game for a lot of poeple.
[00:20] <baxter> factions are boring free for all is more interesting
[00:20] <Vinven> should be faction based pvp such as good vs evil, with areas of battlegrounds to meet n fight or something interesting, not just griefing people while they hunt
[00:20] <Jaenos> Derid, I agree
[00:20] <Ivanushka> Goblins could choos wheter to join horde or alliance
[00:20] <B_afraid> tell me more about teh pros/cons of PvP and ill make an opinion. EG what happens when i Kill/die? do i get any loot? do i lose any loot? will there be large scale pvp? if so, how many people?
[00:20] <Ivanushka> for example :)
[00:20] <angrard> Andred/Mordred/Darktide type server. Then the pvp guilds would be happy
[00:20] <Eclipser> BASE IT ON LOCATION
[00:20] <SoCxRhijord> Orc clans fight Orc Clans too.
[00:21] <Khurag> If you could choose the faction yoru guild was in. Because there had to be traitors on both sides, no?
[00:21] <][nfrared> factional PvP in SWG was stupid, cause people could be klilled in TOWN. No town killing towns are happy places for crafting and selling
[00:21] <Casi|UDL> Do not base it on location
[00:21] <Eclipser> THAT WAY EVERYONE HAS ACESS TO ALL RACES
[00:21] <TehSuq> KUBIEN, agreed. As far as I'm concerned, that's the difference between a PvP game and a PK game.
[00:21] <Jaenos> Throughout the history of Warcraft there has been interal strife within the Alliance and the Horde
[00:21] <Derid> Yes
[00:21] <Malkin> Here is what I think. PvP is a good idea however there are players that never pvp.... so while it makes sense for alliance vs horde pvp what about the people who just like PvM? :) Perhaps blizzard should add specific zones, near the borders of every kingdom where factional pvp is possible but not everywhere else... :)
[00:21] <Vinven> yea, no exp loss from PvP, no item loot either
[00:21] <Neo-Bahamut> Good v Evil doesn't work, there are good orcs and evil orcs, and good humans and evil humans. That's not a good way to divide players.
[00:21] <Kheldon> yeah...a more flexible faction system would be ncie
[00:21] <Casi|UDL> Keep PvP open. If players are against PvP make non PvP servers for them
[00:21] <Cynian> PvP should just be for fun. If there is some kind of prize or bonus gained from it, then much stricter rules must be implemented to preserve game ballence.
[00:21] <r00t_> good point Malkin
[00:21] <Sask> Really a person should have a cjoice of a Non-PvP server..or going all out on a PvP (take your chances server).
[00:21] <B_afraid> o god...222 people...all voicing their opinions...
[00:21] <shoX> hey when war comes you wont see Gnomes never again ...they'll be smashed like tomatoes
[00:21] <Vinven> yea a PvM server would be good
[00:21] <Kreugen> it IS special zones Malkin
[00:21] <Dariuas> Sask: Asheron's Call did that.
[00:21] <][nfrared> If people don't like to PvP, then don't do the faction quests to take a side simple
[00:21] <Karunel> Free PvP is a bit sucky imho. I mean it may be cool, but people always find ways to grief and generally annoy people. If the game has PvE too, then I'd go for factional PvP. Even if it's fixed sides. But big scale pvP is always fun
[00:21] <Ivanushka> and people shoulnt be punished for dying in pvp except usual downtime for death
[00:21] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 5 more minutes for this topic *
[00:22] <Tetrian> malkin, easier to make pvp system and then apply it to mobs than make it the other way around (in say a pure pve server)
[00:22] <Sask> exactly...I played on both...
[00:22] <Malkin> Kreugen well what are we arguing about then =pppp
[00:22] <B_afraid> well will there be entire pvp servers?
[00:22] <Ivanushka> and person who killed should advanve in rank
[00:22] <TehSuq> While I like the idea of traitors, we need to have some VISUAL cue that a player or group has changed sides. Otherwise, it gets very difficult for players to figure out who's an ally and who's an enemy.
[00:22] <Aurican> Faction wars are the best!
[00:22] <SoCxRhijord> Free PVP mixed with FActional PVP would Balance everything out.
[00:22] <Ivanushka> like becoming seargent liutenant
[00:22] <Casi|UDL> For everyone else Make open PvP servers. My money the population on servers with game and PvP content will outweigh those with just game content.
[00:22] <Ivanushka> and gaining some items or cahs or badge :)
[00:22] <Cynian> The other problem with having characters that do both PvP and PvE is that you really can only effectively ballence the game for one of those two. Ballencing the game for both is nearly impossible as DAoC, SB, and SWG showed.
[00:22] <shoX> I have no idea who will lead those factions tho?
[00:22] <Kubien> The frontier system works great in DAoC. Give poeple extra rewards for PvEing in a PvP enviorment, but don't force poeple to pvp where some high level can run up and 1 shot them taking away the past 3 hours of work on thier part.
[00:22] <B_afraid> maybe show their name in red if they are an enemy green if there an ally?
[00:22] <Kreugen> PVP in wow is factional in specific zones, where you gain unique looking items comparable to the ones you gain in PVE
[00:22] <Ivanushka> Imagine if you war Captian of Alliance or something :)
[00:22] <Sask> on a PvP server...clans (Factions) formed on there own
[00:22] <Vinven> Some sort of good reward for killing someone, but no more than afew levels below you, the higher the level above you the greater the reward
[00:22] <Oaksheart> There should be an incentive to PVP, if you're willing to risk something you need a reward.
[00:22] <SoCxRhijord> Yeah, mindless killing sucks.
[00:22] <KlauZ> Level ranges?
[00:22] <angrard> it's called fun
[00:23] <Ivanushka> if there is no reward there is no fun
[00:23] <Oaksheart> The unique items sounds interesting , but its pretty vague
[00:23] <shoX> give factions - give their leaders - give scheduled battles - give events - perfect factional pvp
[00:23] <Casi|UDL> Agreed. Give free reign to who fights who and let them personalize it.
[00:23] <et2112> factional pvp on normal servers to fit the warcraft story line, then make specialty servers like full pvp or rpg or pvm only to appeal to the minorities that want those
[00:23] <Sask> Yeh like when a person is killed..they drop items
[00:23] <Vinven> and should be some seperator, so theres not high lvls killing newbs by the dozens
[00:23] <Cynian> You get weapons from PvP with little-no risk so far from the sound of it.
[00:23] <][nfrared> I hate the fronteers, takes up 20% of the world with stuff that could have been cool, instead 15% of the fronteers are not used
[00:23] <Fenix_light> will there be "safezones"?
[00:23] <Khurag> So level restrictions for PvP?
[00:23] <TehSuq> DAoC showed that regional, faction-based PvP can be fun and exciting while still maintaining a safe haven from combat for those of us who don't want to be looking over our shoulders every moment that we're online.
[00:23] <Ivanushka> shuld be safe zones in cities
[00:23] <Ivanushka> or near cities
[00:23] <][nfrared> fronteers take up to much space that could have been used for great content
[00:23] <shoX> lvl restriction is obvious
[00:23] <r00t_> PvP would have to be level-restricted
[00:23] <Neo-Bahamut> I remember reading a long time ago that blizz planned to give better stuff from pvp than from non-pvp play. I don't remember where this was though...
[00:23] <Fenix_light> NO SAFE ZONES!
[00:23] <Radlin-SH-> Fenix, I would assume a safe zone is the equivalent of being near a group of NPCs, ie. in a city
[00:23] <Tetrian> Thats cause theres no point in RVR In daoc, cause of flaws in the keep system :X
[00:23] <Casi|UDL> Play on a non PvP server
[00:23] <B_afraid> Rewards for PvP can be easily abused. I could just get my friend to make a junl character and kill him 50 times in a row without him fighting back, and get the 50 rewards :/
[00:23] <Derek> is there risk to PVP though ? incentive to PVP as well as a reward are key to making any kind of PVP work. as well as not alienate the people who dont want to PVP at all
[00:23] <Kheldon> TehSuq: that's true..but imo things can be taken a step further
[00:23] <Tetrian> infared
[00:23] <Fenix_light> safe zones sux :(
[00:23] <Ivanushka> oh come on entering alliance city and wacking people
[00:23] <][nfrared> yes
[00:23] <Casi|UDL> seperate PvP rules by servers not factions
[00:23] <Kreugen> noe-bahamut: items with unique appearance, not better stats
[00:23] <Ivanushka> it isnt realistic
[00:23] <Sask> omg pls no safezones....that grief zones..some little jerk runs and hides in em..after cheap shot'n ya
[00:24] <qatwork> Neo-Bahamut: I read something on that as well
[00:24] <TehSuq> KELDON, so long as we're making a new game, we might as well take it further, eh? ;)
[00:24] <shoX> carebear friendly if you like or not
[00:24] <Vinven> at least some sort of restrictions, or maybe even just a downside to killing newbs and an upside to killing same levels n higher levels
[00:24] <wow4lyfe> !ping
[00:24] <Vinven> but there has to be safezones, such as towns and newb areas
[00:24] <Ivanushka> or than at least throw like 10000 guards
[00:24] <kane> then citys should have badass guards to stop PKing if theres no safe zones
[00:24] <B_afraid> I have a question for the moderators!:
[00:24] <Kubien> If the frontiers where decreased in size, and made equaly accessable to both sides in terms of travel time that would be a fine faction pvp.
[00:24] <SoCxRhijord> Factional pvp encourages strategy.
[00:24] <Ivanushka> to protect cities or something
[00:24] <ariqs> griefing ruins pvp
[00:24] <Icarium> el chupacabra
[00:24] <Radlin-SH-> If you don't like safezones, don't duel near them
[00:24] <Radlin-SH-> :)
[00:24] <Khurag> PK's always go to outside a safe zone and camp it
[00:24] <Whol> Will WoW have catapulting fetuses?
[00:24] <][nfrared> yes factional pvp does make for smarter pvp
[00:24] <Ivanushka> events could remove safezones from time to time
[00:24] <Derek> dont split things up via servers please. If you start changing dynamics per server you have to work on that many more problems
[00:24] <Sask> Dung's or starter areas with lev restrictions
[00:24] <Ivanushka> like assaults on city
[00:24] <shoX> I dont want to be ganked anymore :P
[00:24] <Dragohr> Make PvP in cities available but put guards who will help if they dont like one of the persons becuase of bad faction
[00:24] <Vinven> have guards roam around the safe zones borders
[00:24] <masterjedi77> hey everyone
[00:24] <][nfrared> then don't join a faction
[00:24] <Tetrian> kubien, if there was a point in taking keys, as say, strategic advantages etc, there would be more reason to use those areas :)
[00:24] <Casi|UDL> Griefing is realistic. It is nature of some.
[00:25] <Casi|UDL> Bring it all on
[00:25] <Tetrian> keeps not keys :X
[00:25] <Oaksheart> Realism isn't fun
[00:25] <Cynian> Griefing without consequences is not realistic
[00:25] <Oaksheart> for most
[00:25] <Slansin_FoH> I plan on griefing a lot
[00:25] <Nihnyes> yea so are pk's =\
[00:25] <Malkin> AHAAaa
[00:25] <Cynian> bounties should be placed for griefers
[00:25] <Malkin> is that GFraizer :)
[00:25] <Neo-Bahamut> Griefing may be realistic, but realistic is not always FUN
[00:25] <Ivanushka> but newbs should be protected
[00:25] <Vinven> if theres safe zones, guards roaming the boarders will help keep campers away
[00:25] <r00t_> FoH will be griefers? :p
[00:25] <Tetrian> hhe slansin
[00:25] <Sask> yeh if you dont want the grief..dont play on the pvp server
[00:25] <Khurag> What if you coul dchoose a neutral faction
[00:25] <Whol> Will I be able to transfer my Diablo 2 character to WoW?
[00:25] <Nihnyes> hopefully pvping is good
[00:25] <Ivanushka> imagine somebody gets game
[00:25] <Malathor> On what basis does factional pvp increase stratgy? It eliminates diplomacy totally.
[00:25] <Neo-Bahamut> And imho, FUN is the point of games, not realism
[00:25] <Ivanushka> logs in first time and gets wacked
[00:25] <Nihnyes> factional can work well depending
[00:25] <Kreugen> r00t: best answer to that is, some people deserve the be griefed
[00:25] <Ivanushka> it isnt fun
[00:25] <shoX> this game wont be PK friendly you should know it by now
[00:25] <Aurican> Faction wars prevent griefing, hoarde camps alliance, alliance strong arms form up and wipe hoarde
[00:25] <Errorist> elfs, gnomes, trolls, tuarens, and orcs arent realistic either, so lets not talk about realism
[00:25] <B_afraid> are the dev actually comming?
[00:25] <Nihnyes> i think it's good
[00:25] <Casi|UDL> Safe zones in towns can be good. It promotes merchanting
[00:25] <][nfrared> right Khurag neutral, then nobody could steal or attack you, simple
[00:25] <TehSuq> MALATHOR: You can still have diplomacy within your faction.
[00:26] <Kheldon> By keeping in character type rules and taking killing as in character actions. Proper consequences and you'll have people avoiding griefing because it hurts them more than it pleases them.
[00:26] <Casi|UDL> Outside of town should be dangerous though.
[00:26] <TehSuq> In fact, the most diplomatically skilled faction will likely dominate the server.
[00:26] <Karunel> Safe zones are a must
[00:26] <Ivanushka> cities safe outside not safe
[00:26] <SoCxRhijord> It's already known that WoW will have special pvp areas.
[00:26] <Kubien> Faction pvp means you are going to have battles of 100 vs 100. Open pvp means you have high levels ganking low levels and once every great while a 1v1 battle between equal levels.
[00:26] <Nihnyes> Xantheus ;p
[00:26] <Ivanushka> that is my short version :)
[00:26] <Vinven> and no item looting, make the pk rewards something other than punishing the poor sap who got killed
[00:26] <Xantheus> hey Nihn
[00:26] <Khurag> Exactly, merchants, crafters, PvM'ers would join neutral factions?
[00:26] <Neo-Bahamut> Some places in cities are not safe as well
[00:26] <B_afraid> YA like that whole arena battle thing...cant wait to see that
[00:26] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:27] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Good input, Generaly seems to agree factional pvp is needed, keep the good inputs comming
[00:27] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next topic.
00:27] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 5. Many see Powerleveling as a problem. Do you agree? What problems do you think they (can) cause?`Are the claims totally redicolous or close to the truth?
[00:27] <SoCxRhijord> Powerleveling is in all rpgs.
[00:27] <allout|Heero> foh will own you all
[00:27] <Kylt> impossible to control
[00:27] <][nfrared> PL'ing is fine. People jsut jelous
[00:27] <baxter> www.dictionary.com
[00:27] <Keystone_FoH> they're even!
[00:27] <Sask> Your going to have powerlevelers no matter what
[00:27] <shoX> plveling is a way of play
[00:27] <r00t_> Powerleveling will happen no matter what. Even with level-based grouping restrictions there will be work-arounds.
[00:27] <ariqs> I think it is just jealous whiners
[00:27] <allout|Heero> foh will own you all
[00:27] <Keystone_FoH> They're totally rediculous!
[00:27] <Xantheus> oh boy, a foh fanboi
[00:27] <Kubien> Power level is not a problem as long as the powerlevers are not stealing every single mob in a given area prevent poeple of that level to actualy exp
[00:27] <Nri> Powerleveling can be a problem for non-powerlevelers, because they will have difficulties getting groups at the lower levels
[00:27] <Nihnyes> PL'ing can get out of hand
[00:27] <Kreugen> um there are a lot of definitions of powerleveling.. if you mean using a high level to power up a low level, sure it can be problematic but why worry about it
[00:27] <Khurag> Don't think i've ever played a game that didn't have PL'ing
[00:27] <Tetrian> Rediculous in my opinion.. noone like the grinding, especially not when they already explored the world with their first chars
[00:27] <Ivanushka> some ppl want to power play i dont see any reason to make them not to
[00:27] <Galadyn|Thief2> From what I hear of WoW's normal leveling rate, pl'ing won't be a problem...
[00:27] <][nfrared> power players can't be stoped
[00:28] <Whol> Will there be a special WoW server that bans players with a Canadian IP?
[00:28] <TehSuq> Ultimately, I'd rather group with a powerlevelled character than with an eBaybie. How quickly you got to level xxx doesn't matter; it's how good your character is when you get there.
[00:28] <Slansin_FoH> I don't play games to roleplay a wimpy supporting character. I roleplay an assassin.
[00:28] <Darksheer> this reminds me why stratics sux
[00:28] <kane> powerleveling dont hurt anyone othen then the social life of the person doing it
[00:28] <PraSlea> yes yes yes . this game SUX
[00:28] <Vinven> eh, I think powerleveling is okay, but can cause problems, For one the person plvld might not know the class as well or have weak skills and make any they group with later suffer
[00:28] <Ivanushka> only problem becones if power character start harrasing newbies
[00:28] <Tuco> Powerleveling is a way for those with higher levels to not go through the 'grunge' of re-leveling. There should be few or no steps to prevent it from occuring.
[00:28] <Dragohr> Powerlvling is not a problem.. As long that you dont hit max lvl in a few hours
[00:28] <Casi|UDL> If there is a will, there is way. Shouldn't be of much concern. I intend to play when finished.
[00:28] <Sask> Leveling has to be hard....
[00:28] <Neo-Bahamut> It's just a matter of how much time and effort each person is willing to expend. It's not exploiting bugs, or doing something unfair, it's just playing like a maniac.
[00:28] <Kheldon> IMO powerlevelling is someone playing a lot and effectively. And as long as they don't cheat or exploit, I don't really care that they play like that.
[00:28] <][nfrared> hehe krane
[00:28] <Icarium> i dont roleplay :(
[00:28] <Derid> It depends on how long you want to put off people getting to the "End Game" (such as pvp/high end mercantiling)
[00:28] <][nfrared> kane*
[00:28] <SoCxRhijord> Blizzard already stated that WoW will be friendly to both Carebears and Powerlevelers. I assume this means that Powerleveling won't cause too much of a ruckus.
[00:28] <shoX> if its allowed then why not? its not an exploit
[00:28] <Sask> Leveling has to take time
[00:28] <Semadin> if powerleveling is easy as it used to be in d2, then there would never be any groups for people who wish to level normally
[00:28] <Malathor> Forcing someone to redo all old content at the same speed is inflicting punishment...if people cant change classes, it makes no sense to eliminate pling
[00:28] <Griffer> the only form that power leveling will affect another person is if there are one time quests that affect the whole server. seeing the same group do every one of those one timers would get a bit frustrating
[00:28] <Whol> Can we sell gold dupes on Ebay?
[00:28] <Ivanushka> depends on how large scale will be on levels
[00:28] <`RaV> Make everyone have their own server... problem solved ;)
[00:28] <Casi|UDL> Making leveling not so hard promotes alts and more game content
[00:28] <Nri> Sask: why the hell should leveling take time ?
[00:28] <r00t_> There will be those who put in more time, who reap more benefits as usual. The powergamers deserve to receive more if they put in more. Diminishing returns on multiple characters seems to be a good idea - maybe have every subsequent character require more experience to level.
[00:28] <Keystone_FoH> good point there mala
[00:28] <Kreugen> I think leveling should occur at a fixed rate, so all 2000ish people on a server are all in the same two zones having a gigantic cocktail party
[00:28] <Ivanushka> will lvl 6 character have chance against lvl 8
[00:29] <Oaksheart> MMORPG players are in a new mindset now, it's not like early EQ anymore with each new one
[00:29] <B_afraid> They can cause cheap playing. If a newb comes in, groups with a lvl 50 dude. thats not playing fair. Make a limit on the level yopu can gruop with, like a 5-10 level difference(eg your lvl 5 can group with lvl 10, but not 11 or over)
[00:29] <Ivanushka> or not
[00:29] <SoCxRhijord> Ivan - Yes
[00:29] <Kubien> I think it needs to be better defined. Are you talking about Power leveling of 1 person playing 24/7 or are you refering to Powerleveling of a high level character leveling a lower level character extreemly fast?
[00:29] <Slansin_FoH> lol Kreugen
[00:29] <Derek> why would you ban people with a canadian IP ?
[00:29] <Nri> if the endgame is PVP then the PVE'ing shouldn't be grinding
[00:29] <Ivanushka> if lvl 10 beats lvl 9 always
[00:29] <Whol> How do we unlock a Force Sensitive Account in WoW
[00:29] <Nihnyes> I think there needs to be powerleveling limits, because people getting to high levels really fast, and only in it for the loot (which of course there are people BENT on loot), and not taking the game for the fantasy genre it is, or the environment is when powerleveling just becomes a massive growth in character population.~
[00:29] <Vinven> I dont care for people going 'OMG Im soo leet I got to 65 in only 4 hours' like its some race, so would be a good idea to put in a little forced downtime for plvlers
[00:29] <note> hail sirs
[00:29] <Oaksheart> its a race to the top, which is good as it spreads out the level range
[00:29] <Galadyn|Thief2> lol
[00:29] <Ivanushka> but if for example lvl 5 can kill lvl 10
[00:29] <SoCxRhijord> Ivanushka - Characters are item dependent.
[00:29] <][nfrared> IF THE world is BIG enough then Power Players can coexist with Weekend Warriors !!
[00:29] <Neo-Bahamut> Ah, now RUSHING is really a pain.
[00:29] <Sask> whats the point pf playing if you dont advance..at your own rate...why not just have everyone level a level every 24hrs then
[00:29] <Ariakas> Will I be able to transfer my star wars character to WoW?
[00:29] <TehSuq> Powerlevelling will be even less of a problem in WoW than any other game so far -- with instancing and randomly located spawns, there's no worry that a powerleveller will camp your uber-exp spot.
[00:29] <Ivanushka> yes
[00:29] <et2112> pl'ing ruins a game because it lets people quickly level up the "flavor of the month" overpowered classes that bring more and more imbalance to the game, it also waters down the uniqueness of different characters/classes since there are so many of them running around
[00:29] <Maus> u shouldnt limit anyones progress, thats just lame
[00:29] <Kreugen> yeah the question isn't worded well at all
[00:29] <Casi|UDL> You want to promote small scale PvP. Factioning player bases does not accomplish this.
[00:29] <shoX> level spread is a result
[00:29] <Oberon> Consider the leading game in the US has powerleveing I think someone likes it
[00:29] <Neo-Bahamut> Powerleveling is fine, but rushing a lower leveled character is not.
[00:29] <Ivanushka> but in some games a few levels higher and you waste other one
[00:29] <`RaV> et2112: Makes everyone level the same speed... what's the point?
[00:29] <Ariakas> how do we get to the planes of power?
[00:30] <Jaenos> You can't stop people from playing the game.
[00:30] <Derid> For many of us old-time ORPG players, the End-Game is all that we are interested in, we have already whacked 10 million or so Mobs. Whacking Mobs will never change much
[00:30] <Nihnyes> powerleveling eventually leads to too many unappreciative people
[00:30] <PsychicOracle> Isn't that just from EQ?
[00:30] <Ivanushka> of course lvl 50 will be strong
[00:30] <PsychicOracle> Planes of Power?
[00:30] <ariqs> I wish there wasn't level requirements on items. There is a lot of fun involved in making a low level char strong after you've played one char too long
[00:30] <B_afraid> planes of power!! STFU THIS ISNT EQ!! sorry mods, had to get that out
[00:30] <Ivanushka> and will die less to lvl 30
[00:30] <SoCxRhijord> The Idea of high level characters giving good usable items to new characters will always be.
[00:30] <Slansin_FoH> I plan on powerlevelling as fast as I possibly can, and then spend my time griefing in PvP zones.
[00:30] <TehSuq> ET2112: Flavor of the month causes powerlevelling; powerlevelling doesn't cause a Flavor of the Month. So long as Bliz releases a well-balanced game and doesn't MAJORLY buff/nerf after release, there shouldn't BE a flavor of the month.
[00:30] <Ivanushka> but lvl 30 maybe should have chance to do something
[00:30] <Malkin> Kheldon I say its not a problem :) Everyone plays for himself, so why would it matter if the guy who you dont know next to you is 100 leves higher? If he steals all the mobs just go to instanced dungeon :) And judging by the guy at ign forums who was at gencon he leveled so fast.... :) You play and you forget you have to level up! You might turn into powerleveler without even knowing =p
[00:30] <E_Ragnarok> how about putting limits to how many levels you can gain per day :F
[00:30] <Derek> power lvlers tend to stress out devs more than the players . they are the first people to scream about high lvl content , items etc
[00:30] <Vinven> perhaps make it a lesser form of powerleveling, so you can rush if you want but still have time to absorb everything youd normally learn
[00:30] <Sask> If a game is harder to level....you value it more...and other around you know how hard it was
[00:30] <Ivanushka> it will depend on blizzard
[00:30] <Thraka|afk> .
[00:30] <shoX> we dont what gives you real power : level or items???
[00:30] <][nfrared> thats right Malkin
[00:30] <Ivanushka> how much difference will be between levels
[00:30] <shoX> know
[00:30] <Vinven> a level limit would be an idea, or how about a Time Limit
[00:30] <Tetrian> levels always shox
[00:31] <SoCxRhijord> items
[00:31] <Nihnyes> argh
[00:31] <Ariakas> what relics do we capture?
[00:31] <Khurag> items
[00:31] <Kreugen> power players get their moneys worth
[00:31] <Nihnyes> gotta go to work
[00:31] <Xantheus> level limit and time limit are both stupid
[00:31] <Kubien> There is no reason at all to stop a power gamer. Everyone is entitled to playing how they like. If someone levels faster then you, don't cry about it and force that person to be stoped. If you are talking about Powerleveling, then there is nothing wrong with that as long as it is not interfearing with other players.
[00:31] <B_afraid> Have faith in Blizzard. They will know what is best(even thought teh dream team left)
[00:31] <Cynian> There's always going to be a portion of th epopoulation that powerlevels, regardless of how the system is set up. It should be REDUCED, getting a character to the highest possible level within a week is NOT acceptable, but it will always exist.
[00:31] <SoCxRhijord> The more you play - the better your character gets. That's the way.
[00:31] <Khurag> with good items lower level characters can beat higher ones
[00:31] <Nihnyes> hope you all have a good productive discussion :)
[00:31] <Vinven> like you cant level till some time passes, that way it will help promote Roleplaying and Tradeskills etc
[00:31] <Nri> Did Blizzard state any information of what the ENDGAME in WoW would be?
[00:31] <r00t_> Some people get enjoyment from levelling slowly, exploring the game at their own pace. If people want to be powerleveled, then power to him. It's not like Everquest where the PLvled people are ruining the server. Griefing and camping should be non-existant if planned out well in correlation with instancing.
[00:31] <Kheldon> Malkin: I agree that unless they are causing problems (using cheats, exploits) I don't care how they play. BEcause it's not affecting me badly really.
[00:31] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 5 more minutes till next topic *
[00:31] <|X|DoMi> part of the genre imo
[00:31] <Derek> many power lvlers (at least in some games ) are using AFK maccroes. These need to be dealt with harshly and early on. There will always be others who just have lots of free time or opeople who share accounts though
[00:31] <Tetrian> within a limit khurag :)
[00:31] <Ivanushka> and it depends how powerfull high lvl chars will be
[00:31] <Sask> If you hold a powerleveler back....they will just leave the game
[00:31] <note> what's the topic now
[00:31] <Khurag> of course ;)
[00:31] <Neo-Bahamut> Playing like an expert=powerleveling... rushing low leveled characters to high level quickly by letting them leech exp from high level monsters that they would never ever be able to defeat otherwise=an exploit of the exp dividing system
[00:31] <Kubien> Why shouldn't it be acceptable Cynian?
[00:32] <Ariakas> is lord british in thegame?
[00:32] <et2112> the point is that I came from daoc and the ruling groups there are the ones that follow the trends and make groups based on the overpowered classes at the time... just to much of the "leet powergaming" aspect is brought in to it for it to be fun for casual gamers
[00:32] <Ivanushka> they should never be able to solo best mobs
[00:32] <shoX> level cap is one of the keys
[00:32] <r00t_> yes
[00:32] <Casi|UDL> no level cap
[00:32] <Dragohr> Look at it this way. A Powerlvled character will not know alot about hes own character..
[00:32] <Cynian> MACROING is NOT an acceptable way to level your character. Fortunatly, it seems that only SOE games allow macroing, and I really hope that blizzard doesn't.
[00:32] <Tetrian> Neo, whats the point in being high level and not being able to help a lower level friend ?
[00:32] <Casi|UDL> That's silly
[00:32] <TehSuq> Besides: what defines a powerleveller, exactly? As a level 50 shaman (buffer fantastique) in DAoC, I used to frequently buff n00bs to the hilt. I wasn't powerlevelling them; just bored. They weren't powerlevelling; just lucky.
[00:32] <Tuco> I like the way powerleveling was handled in Shadowbane. I could leave my character on while I slepped and a guild mate was farming gold, I woke up the next morning to ten new levels!
[00:32] <Kubien> How is it that someone you will probley never meet ruins you game becuse they level faster then you?
[00:32] <|X|DoMi> no cap
[00:32] <`RaV> If I beat Diablo, do I win the game?
[00:32] <Derid> No reason to kill AFK macroes IMO. Some people really dont enjoy another variation of killing Mobiles. Endgame is all that matters.
[00:32] <Karma-> sup casi
[00:32] <Malkin> ][nfrared see thats the thing that always bothered me with mmorpgs :) Its readmilling :) Its harder to powerlevel in swg for example in the higher levels because it takes a LOT of time to achieve one skill box. And what does it add? Some +5 dmg that by itself doesnt really show... there was even a skill box on the swordsmen skill tree that was empty... =p
[00:32] <Cynian> Agreed TehSuq
[00:32] <ariqs> derek: if bliz makes the game so easy to play that a macro can do the job then its not worth someones attention anyway ;P
[00:32] <Vinven> eh, theres upsides and downsides to it, but I think there should be at least Some moderation even if its minor
[00:32] <Casi|UDL> Just make it to where people dont gain ability points after certain levels
[00:32] <Sask> Why do people play MOG"s...to be all the same ...or to be more powerful then others?
[00:32] <Derid> Because end game is actually possibly substantially different between games
[00:32] <B_afraid> thast true, power leveling only hurts your character dev more than helps, cause you dont get to 'know' your character properly
[00:32] <Ivanushka> best defense against macro
[00:33] <Ivanushka> is TEAM PLAY :)
[00:33] <`RaV> Sask: it's all about bragging rights :)
[00:33] * qatwork slaps Slansin_FoH around a bit with a large trout
[00:33] <Ivanushka> taking big guys down
[00:33] <Vinven> exactly B
[00:33] <Smeg> powerleveling a lower level char with higher level doesn't require grouping. When grouped lower levels should progress through their levels at the same spead as the higher ones. (within reason of course)
[00:33] <Ivanushka> in team
[00:33] <Khurag> A detailed EXP gaining system could easily stop people from powerleveling when 1 high level knocks the npc to low health, etc.
[00:33] <shoX> powerleveling is too mechanical for me
[00:33] <TehSuq> It's such an ill-defined (and ill-definABLE) term that there's no way to really prevent it. Besides, so long as there's no way to "steal" from "legitimate" levellers, it's a victimless "crime."
[00:33] <Malkin> in the end as long as you dont grief other as Kheldon said, its all good =D
[00:33] <Karma-> dont make it like eq when you have to raid for your whole life !
[00:33] <Ivanushka> that way you have to be in game and do something
[00:33] <Icarium> but you will have to grief, because of the peer pressure
[00:33] <Derek> thats not the point though. No matter what blizz does some guy is going to try and maccro . These people should be playing the game as intended not having a program play for them
[00:33] <ariqs> rading is fun
[00:33] <Neo-Bahamut> Helping is one thing, but purposely running them through a very high level area to get them up 30 levels in a day is defeating the idea of playing the game.
[00:33] <Sask> Just because other baseball players play better..then other people...do they hold em back? why hold a PL'r back
[00:33] <Ivanushka> if i can go alone to dungeon and take it by myself...that is bad
[00:33] <B_afraid> Meh i think its cheap personally. Play the game like its meant to be played.
[00:33] <shoX> I need to enjoy this game and cyborg mob wiping aint doin me at all
[00:34] <Dragohr> Powerlvling removes the joy of gaining a lvl
[00:34] <Griffer> thats a point though. it shouldnt be so tedious that ppl feel they need a program to play for them
[00:34] <SoCxRhijord> Sask has grasped the point here.
[00:34] <ariqs> why, derek? because you will feel cheated of your time?
[00:34] <Kubien> How does it ruin your game though Neo-Bahamut?
[00:34] <Kheldon> Simply have exp caps for your level..meaning at eveyr level, there is only so much exp you can get
[00:34] <Sask> Well the only one losing out is the PL'r
[00:34] * jolu-AW has joined #worldofwarcraft
[00:34] <Kubien> Why does omeone else leveling fast prevent you from enjoying the game?
[00:34] <Smeg> people powerlevel because leveling is boring, your not loosing joy, your skipping pain.
[00:34] <Fixxxer> if you dont want PLing, dont make it so the players feel they need to PL
[00:34] <Vinven> eh no need to rush though, why be in such a hurry when Im sure youd have more fun manually leveling your char, or at the least only have minor plvling
[00:34] <SoCxRhijord> To limit the player sucks.
[00:34] <Neo-Bahamut> ... point.
[00:34] <Malkin> or be able to group with playas only for example 5 levels above you and below :)
[00:34] <TehSuq> NEO-BAHAMUT, as far as I'm concerned, that's shades of grey, not black and white. There's a whole range of behaviors, some of which are clearly powerlevelling to most people, some of which are clearly not, and MANY of which could go either way. How could you ever make a consistent rule?
[00:34] <Ivanushka> it it will be like...Protect the wizard get in front of him...or yelling to priest to control some creature that joined etc
[00:34] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> I thikn there should be a power lvling server and a non power lvling server that way every one is happy!!!!!
[00:34] <Samus> Kubien - grouping with rushers is a bitch.
[00:34] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> I thikn there should be a power lvling server and a non power lvling server that way every one is happy!!!!!
[00:34] <`RaV> Only problem in MMORPGS is time investment != skill
[00:34] <Derek> no not at all. I'm off the opinion though that people should play a game. Why bother getting to the end game and then compalning about it when you missed the journey
[00:34] <Icarium> but i only have fun when im rushing
[00:34] <B_afraid> thats evry true..besides, the focus of WoW is questing isnt it? so anyone who just levels will be GREATLY missing out on teh game experiences, and will then be making their game much less fun
[00:34] <Sask> Iknow how to fix it..remove levels
[00:34] <Kreugen> hey look someone from battle.net!
[00:34] <Malathor> neo-bahamut: what is the purpose of the game though? The level treadmill, or having some sort of "end-game". I doubt people will be satisified with a game beyond the levelling treadmill
[00:35] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> I thikn there should be a power lvling server and a non power lvling server that way every one is happy!!!!!
[00:35] <Guardian-GLB> [DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W, please stop spamming the channel...
[00:35] <Sask> remove any ladder standing
[00:35] <Derid> Why shouldnt people be able to jump to the endgame though? Theres to many other MMORPGs, games these days will sink or swim on end-game not leveling treadmills.
[00:35] <SoCxRhijord> white crow don't spam
[00:35] <Vinven> many people enjoy some powerleveling to help speed up, but when you only plvl you miss out on so much despite the time you save
[00:35] <Oaksheart> a Ladder in an mmorpg would be cool
[00:35] <three_sixteen|CS> People play the game to entertain themselves, and however they find the game entertaining is how the game should be played. It should NOT be played by your rules, just because YOU dont have fun playing it that way.
[00:35] <adonys> we feel that powerlevelingshould go, but not by not allowing it, but by making it unnecessary, ie: make the levelingthreadmills easy :PPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
[00:35] <Ivanushka> i personally like to powerplay and minmax
[00:35] <Oaksheart> I know UOX is doing something like that
[00:35] <Samus> And you annoy your party, Vinven.
[00:35] <Ivanushka> cause it is fun for me
[00:35] <Sask> Why do people want to level...sothey can do things in the game
[00:35] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> soz
[00:35] <ariqs> Derek: why play if a macro can do it? maybe they want to save their attention for something more than mindless clicking
[00:35] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:36] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Again very different views on Power Leveling. This is good to get everyone's opinion on the topic.
[00:36] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next topic.
[00:36] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 6. How extensive would you want a WoW Guide to be? Thin to just have the basic keymappings and minimal information or something fullblown to follow your character level by level? Or something in between?
[00:36] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:36] <Icarium> i get all my guiding from gamefaqs
[00:36] <`RaV> Guide should be minimal...
[00:36] <shoX> huge one
[00:36] <Maus> inbetween..
[00:36] <Oaksheart> some level of ambiguity would be cool, kind of like the EQ atlas
[00:36] <Kheldon> Something that just helps you understand how the game works. Without going any further.
[00:36] <Khurag> Minimal
[00:36] <][nfrared> minimal
[00:36] <`RaV> Game should be easy enough to learn by itself
[00:36] <Griffer> inbetween.
[00:36] <Ivanushka> Something to get you started and explaining stuff like item creating failure etc..but not all stuff
[00:36] <Roks|hw> min~
[00:36] <Tetrian> In between, bit of basic(and correct) information on classes would rock :D
[00:36] <zamtin> basic
[00:36] <Novocaine> Minimal
[00:36] <Motivez> less is more, dont give away all the secrets, learning the game is the fun part ~
[00:36] <Derid> Have everything feasable to put into the guide, including combat formulas, but most importantly be ACCURATE.
[00:36] <Dragohr> Dont make it a guide for the 50 first levels.. That will remove the investigation
[00:36] <Kreugen> I don't htink there should be any instructions at all, just a blank CD in a white box
[00:37] <Fixxxer> something in between. Having nothing is too aggrivating. and you cant give all the info away
[00:37] <majeo> Keep it minimal. Role playing does not mean acting out a script.
[00:37] <SoCxRhijord> I want a WoW guide to describe everything in the game. Every single detail, every element.
[00:37] <Nri> A starterguide for basic info, but not too much info besides that.
[00:37] <Vinven> Id say have it give a basic layout of the world, its history, classes etc and some maps, and let the people discover the rest
[00:37] <Kubien> Reguardless, there are going to be 100s of online guides with detailed quest information and leveling information.
[00:37] <ariqs> minimal because the information in the guide will become incorrect over time
[00:37] <TehSuq> Personally, I'm all about information acquisition, so I'll figure it all out one way or another.
[00:37] <Griffer> lots of background info
[00:37] <Kheldon> I don't want to hold a "How to play WoW until the end game" handbook. :P
[00:37] <B_afraid> I LOVE detail in guids. ANY AND ALL information SHOULD be included, down to the smallest detail
[00:37] <Tetrian> Full spell and skill lists too!
[00:37] <Malkin> All the basic information to get you started, and the interesting stuff should be kept secret so you can discover it yourself while you play the game :)
[00:37] <qatwork> who would want a step by step guide? bleh... that's like a coloring book, who wants to play within the lines
[00:37] <Griffer> nice map poster
[00:37] <Ivanushka> for example to know how to hit something is calculated
[00:37] <Malathor> Minimal...Discovery is the best part of a new MMORPG
[00:37] <Derek> Something in between. Showing the whole game in abook takes away from the need to find out for yourself
[00:37] <Khurag> In a month people will be puting out their own guides on websites, why kill the trees? ^^
[00:37] <Griffer> big map poster
[00:37] <shoX> like in ac2 - everything on a website , minimum ingame
[00:37] <Ivanushka> how enemies resist your spell
[00:37] <Ivanushka> and such
[00:37] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> should tell you everything about the game
[00:37] <Wolfen> At least info the character would know already, like local creatures
[00:37] <Maus> class guides, town info, bit of basic play advice, keymapping etc, an undeveloped world map, and some other useeful tips
[00:37] <et2112> published guides are usually a joke because they go out of date so fast with game patches.. personally I never buy or read them
[00:37] <Ivanushka> Game mechanics mostly
[00:37] <Vinven> Spoilers are bad mmkay, its not as great as discovering and exploring and learning for yourself things
[00:37] <|X|DoMi> minimal , too much spoils the game
[00:37] <Tetrian> www.camelotherald.com!
[00:37] <Ivanushka> I personally hated when i didnt know how mob resist something or not..
[00:37] <Galadyn|Thief2> Yes but blizzard guides are different :)
[00:37] <SoCxRhijord> I only read guides when i'm completed with the game, or i'm stuck.
[00:37] <B_afraid> I personally prefer professional guids to those found on the net...gives me a feeling of assurance and authenticity
[00:37] <Tetrian> ^ example of good guide
[00:37] <`RaV> Guide shouldn't replace the Manual...
[00:37] <jolu-AW> camelotherald.com with a character builder :)
[00:37] <Khurag> Good art
[00:37] <shoX> I love newbie islands!
[00:37] <Karunel> Guides're bad
[00:37] <Derid> Yeah et is right, I am same. And making a guide thats still accurate on release is prolly a futule quest.
[00:38] <Radlin-SH-> I generally wouldn't use a WOW guide first-off. I think one of the major aspects of a MMORPG is to be able to learn and explore the world on your own accord. This is the WORLD of warcraft. We shouldn't have to consult a guide for the sake of exploring and manipulating the world. However, if there was a guide created, I would want it to be full of whatever tips they want to give the newbies, whether it be through level-by-level instructio
[00:38] <Tetrian> Aye Jolu
[00:38] <Neo-Bahamut> I dunno, if GF makes it like all his previous guides, I'd be fine.
[00:38] <Karunel> There're fansites for that... :p
[00:38] <Galadyn|Thief2> Arreat Summit for example is an awesome guide, as it always changes.
[00:38] <][nfrared> people that really want MORE then minimal will goto the NET anyway. SO don't spoil it all for us that care about PLAYING the game
[00:38] <Galadyn|Thief2> That's why I love online guides, paper guides are pointless.
[00:38] <B_afraid> Id use a guide first off so i know what the hell im doing!
[00:38] <Kheldon> Radlin: Agree.
[00:38] <Kheldon> d
[00:38] <Ivanushka> I would love to know what each point in skill gets me and so on
[00:38] <Derek> there should be guides on how to create a certain type of character , some maps etc. Maybe about half or 3/4s of the items shown, Show a lot to flesh it out. But leave enough that people still want to find the rest. (some people wont use these guides at all just cause they dont want the spoilers)
[00:38] <Kreugen> I want a Shlonglor WoW guide with dancing peons and such
[00:38] <qatwork> ./agreed Infrared
[00:38] <Ivanushka> not like investing something in skill to find out it didnt do anything
[00:38] <Cynian> I think it's the developer's responsibility to give the user a guide that provides extra content for emersion in the game, but merely gives the user some basic info on how to play and then perhaps some extra little things encouraging them to go out and play.
[00:38] <Swiftan> A book including background lore of certain classes and such would be nice, and a general guide on how to use the UI. Other than that I'd rather learn the normal way
[00:38] <TehSuq> For a formal guide, I'd like to see game details: maps, skill benefits, potential recipes, weapon abilities, spell effects, benefits of stat enhancements, etc. Without knowing what the features of a game do, you can't decide from amongst them.
[00:38] <Vinven> if you start off knowing all that there is to know from a guide, well that takes out some of the joy
[00:38] <Fixxxer> yes online guide>paper guide
[00:38] <Icarium> i want the guide to tell me how i can play with a ps2 controller
[00:38] <SoCxRhijord> ^ stupid
[00:38] <Radlin-SH-> Lol
[00:38] <Vinven> um, lol
[00:38] <Neo-Bahamut> ha ha
[00:38] <Tetrian> FFxi --> that way
[00:38] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> you need a guied that is allways updated and never out of date or newbies are just read a bunch of crud that is 2 versions out of date
[00:38] <B_afraid> paper guide>online guide
[00:38] <masterjedi77> A guide should be just that....a guide, not a step-by-step walkthrough of the game
[00:39] <ariqs> you always have the option to NOT read the guide if you don't want to :P
[00:39] <Ivanushka> Manual should be Game mechanics and start...and other explore for yourself
[00:39] <r00t_> B.Net people lashing out as usual
[00:39] <Radlin-SH-> Ewww, ps2 for a wow would be sick
[00:39] <Nri> Townmaps where you can find specific merchants would be nice.
[00:39] <Sask> the less infothe better..let people ake mistakes..and learn fromthem..it'll take em months
[00:39] <shoX> I wont read WoW readme.txt ;)
[00:39] <Radlin-SH-> Exactly. We don't want everyone to be mastering this right off the bat
[00:39] <B_afraid> o god...ps2 screwed up bad enough with their EQ game...DO NOT PORT WOW
[00:39] <Ivanushka> yeah sask but you should know what skills exactly do
[00:39] <Sez> brb
[00:39] <Fixxxer> and knowing things doesnt take away joy any more than not knowing things. if you have no idea how to do some things, you wont be able to experience them
[00:39] <Ivanushka> or if it worth to raise some skill etc
[00:39] <Derid> Heh. some people alwyas have beta/inside info anyhow
[00:39] <TehSuq> Since the guide is extra, you can choose to buy it if you want to know the details or choose to ignore it if you prefer exploring and discovering for yourself.
[00:39] <Radlin-SH-> If we do have that, we have flooding of markets and high-level uber characters, the game becomes boring
[00:39] <`RaV> The Guide should be a Blizz employee coming to my room to play for me...
[00:39] <Radlin-SH-> and we end up digging our own grave
[00:39] <Kreugen> IN-game though, things like spell descriptions and lore should be VERY thoroughly explained
[00:39] <`RaV> while I sleep
[00:39] <Ivanushka> not to lear later that you actually didnt want it
[00:40] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 3 more minutes before next topic *
[00:40] <B_afraid> Play for you!! and wheres the fun in that...
[00:40] <Semadin> Ive always thourghouly enjoyed the content in blizzard's games and the manuals...altho ive always wished for more, specifically story wise...considering the story and background that this game is built off of, i think the more the guide has, the better. with the art too!
[00:40] <Derid> not having a accurate, detailed formula guide just helps seperate the haves from the have-nots
[00:40] <`RaV> :D
[00:40] <SoCxRhijord> I like to see the Guide have what the Game intends the player to have.
[00:40] <Malathor> As soon as all the game mechanics are revealed, people will be screaming for their class to be nerfed/buffed...keep all the numbers secret...:)
[00:40] <Neo-Bahamut> I never buy print guides for games anymore. I used to, but then I got generally good enough that they were no longer helpful.
[00:40] <Radlin-SH-> Kreugen, agreed. I'd rather have a guide of lore, than a guide describing the skill needed to play the game
[00:40] <Oberon> Rav doesn't need a guide, don't let him fool you
[00:40] <Derid> people scream for nerfs/buffs anyway
[00:40] <Ivanushka> but sometimes manuals get to vague
[00:40] <shoX> some dudes look those paper guides because they can sleep with them ^^
[00:40] <`RaV> Oh, that reminds me
[00:40] <Ivanushka> you need to know what skill does exactly
[00:40] <`RaV> Nerf Warriors!
[00:40] <Vinven> Im sure people would appreciate the basis of their race/class, perhaps the basics of what their starting options n spells/abilities do, and some other hints to help them start off, yes Rad lore would definately be good
[00:40] <Tetrian> shh shox :)
[00:40] <TehSuq> MALATHOR, whether the official guide prints the numbers or not, the numbers WILL be discovered. The only difference is how quickly the whining commences. =)
[00:40] <Khurag> Lore is much more interesting than techinical stuff
[00:40] <B_afraid> Blizzards manuals are usually top notch...just look at the stacraft and War3 manuals...TONS of backrounds info, sweet pics, and all the stuff you need to get started
[00:40] <Malathor> yeah..but there is the nagging element that they dont really know what is going on..:P
[00:40] <Ivanushka> maybe not numbers but how it works
[00:40] <Neo-Bahamut> Newbies find them useful, I guess.
[00:40] <Fixxxer> paper guides are good for people new to MMORPGs.... not for people simply new to a game
[00:41] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> you need a guied that is allways updated and never out of date or newbies are just read a bunch of crud that is 2 versions out of date..
[00:41] <Malathor> so it makes the arguement harder
[00:41] <][nfrared> yeah actually surprised they asked this question
[00:41] <r00t_> I would like to see some background information that ties in with the storyline. So that way once I get the basic commands down and have working knowledge of the plot I can immerse myself into the game without a problem.
[00:41] <masterjedi77> one observation....the opinions here may be a bit biased...I mean, we are all following WoW and are in this channel talking about it....the general public (majority of players) may have very different opinions than most of the people that are in here
[00:41] <Icarium> the ps2 controller vibrates
[00:41] <Sask> MOG's u don't want too much info...game might be a little painful at first..but as u learn..you'll enjoy it for months..to yrs
[00:41] <SoCxRhijord> Just as the Game intends players to have Storyline - it should be in the guide.
[00:41] <r00t_> Go to bed junior.
[00:41] * SoCxRhijord does the wave
[00:41] <Oaksheart> breaking a game down into numbers isn't the best course of action
[00:41] <TehSuq> SASK, that's only true if you don't permanently harm your player by choices made in ignorance during the learning process.
[00:41] <Wit> !
[00:41] <shoX> guide is not everybodys prob I think , people will drain info and knowledge straight from the game
[00:42] <Radlin-SH-> I think thats pretty much a general feeling. Most people want mad amounts of lore to accompany the information. However, we don't want step-by-step
hungry hungry hippos?)
[00:42] <qatwork> very good point TehSuq
[00:42] <Kreugen> some people argue that in-game tutorials detract from the immersiveness, like the first time you log on having the game tell you to click the mouse button to open a bag etc
[00:42] <Sask> They call it ReRolling
[00:42] <Kreugen> so all that sort of shit should be in a manual
[00:42] <Vinven> And one thing, leave LOTS of space for notes in the back of the guide :D
[00:42] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:43] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Allright you guys seem to be mixed on the length of the actual guide, but one thing most of you agree with is that you would like to see lots of lore and backstory, with artwork.
[00:43] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next topic.
[00:43] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 7. What do you feel about the recent dungeon updates. Are there anything you find specially good? Or particuarly disappointing?
[00:43] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:43] <SoCxRhijord> They are genious
[00:43] <shoX> killer feature :)
[00:43] <smatts> More screenshots!
[00:43] <Vinven> sounds promising
[00:43] <Khurag> i like it
[00:43] <Kreugen> I'm hoping there are number limits on the instanced parts of the zones
[00:43] <ariqs> genius, genius :P
[00:43] <][nfrared> crap i missed something?
[00:43] <SoCxRhijord> Instanced + Free for all
[00:43] <Radlin-SH-> Not much to say. Instancing is an idea of beauty. I think they've done an overall great job on them
[00:43] <Oaksheart> I dug the scale of the dungeons, I don't know what to think about instancing deep in a dungeon though
[00:43] <Kheldon> I liked them. Added to the plus list for WoW in my opinion.
[00:43] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> its good but could use more features with dungeons
[00:44] <peronet> I like it too, great work with the mine-feeling
[00:44] <masterjedi77> that the update wasn't Beta:-)...other than that, it all looks good
[00:44] <Ivanushka> i hope dungeons will have traps and such things
[00:44] <ariqs> instancing seems tooty fruity to me
[00:44] <SoCxRhijord> The bad thing I see about it is the bosses who hold keys to places. They will be camped.
[00:44] <Radlin-SH-> I did, however, love the screenies of the dwarves :)
[00:44] <Vinven> yes, traps and locks for a rogue to have purpose
[00:44] <shoX> I need some nice bosses in those instanced dungeouns , just in case I can give'em sucker punch
[00:44] <Radlin-SH-> accompanied by the dungeons
[00:44] <kane> i loved the idea of the deeper you go in a dungeon (aka higher level mobs) the better stuff you can mine
[00:44] <Xenn> I like how they added it in without making all of it instanced or only some of it instanced. Nice mix.
[00:44] <Griffer> traps and locks and puzzles
[00:44] <Kheldon> Not if the key bosses are instanced
[00:44] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> <SoCxRhijord> exactly what i think
[00:44] <][nfrared> ***reminds himself to check out the official site once and a while***|
[00:44] <Ivanushka> and dungeons should be tough
[00:44] <Derek> i really like the instanced dungeon idea and how you can invite people in. This will make it much more small group freindly.
[00:44] <Ivanushka> so you cannot take it alone
[00:45] <Vinven> yes, puzzles would be awesome, make you use your mind to solve where to go next
[00:45] <SoCxRhijord> I'm not sure, do Key bosses hold keys to instanced zones?
[00:45] <TehSuq> Resource collection in dangerous dungeons is a great idea.
[00:45] <peronet> SoCxRhijord, U won't be able to camp those, since most of the big monsters will only be found in "instances" , like you need to go through a door to meet him, and so on, You can't take him out yourself either.
[00:45] <Ivanushka> puzzle wont have much use
[00:45] <Kubien> Love the dungeons
[00:45] <Fixxxer> defintely puzzles would be good
[00:45] <Xenn> A dungeon party would be fun :)
[00:45] <adonys> crappy
[00:45] <Neo-Bahamut> Zelda dungeons:)
[00:45] <Ivanushka> since there will be answers for them on web
[00:45] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> lol
[00:45] <Fixxxer> i wanna feel like Indiana Jones the Orc!
[00:45] <SoCxRhijord> hehe
[00:45] <Malathor> If you've got a mob or key being camped 24/7, it's likely that you have something whos risk/reward ratio is out of whack
[00:45] <Ivanushka> and mobs should jump from wall etc
[00:45] <][nfrared> Yes but you choose to get the answers fromt he web
[00:45] <Radlin-SH-> One thing I'm worried, is that they will make instanced zones underpowered, and not give as good as loot as uninstanced zones. WIth that, we'll get a lot of high-level lamers camping again
[00:45] <Ivanushka> surprising players :)
[00:45] <Radlin-SH-> erm in istanced zones
[00:45] <shoX> if 'I want all loot and get out' thing is in the game then thats ...nice :)
[00:45] <Cynian> I'm just glad the whole game isn't instanced. The thing that worries me is upper level equipment spawns. If there are now an unlimited number of dungeons that can be created, the highest level equipment is going to be camped constantly and the market will be saturated with it.
[00:45] <Oaksheart> Defias ninja wizards were cool looking
[00:46] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> if there is to be puzzles to solve throught dungeons make them change every once and a while so people canot wright spoilers for them
[00:46] <peronet> Radlin-SH-, might be so, but hopefully not...
[00:46] <Vinven> mainly traps n locks should be disarmed by rogues to make them a great addition to groups, but of course a less used alternative such as spell
[00:46] <masterjedi77> instanced dungeons will be random right?? Like when you enter the instanced zone you know that the MOB boss at the end holds a key or something but the layout is different each time? Or is the layout always the same?
[00:46] <Ivanushka> Instanced zones should be reallly hard and for a group of ppl
[00:46] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 3 more minutes *
[00:46] <Neo-Bahamut> If the whole game were instanced, you might as well call it diablo...
[00:46] <Ivanushka> that way it would be cool
[00:46] <TehSuq> CYNIAN, especially since there's no item decay (bad idea there, Bliz).
[00:46] <Kreugen> there's nothing that indicates any randomized content
[00:46] <Malathor> instancing is just a cop-out for not putting enough risk and challenge into the game..sorry
[00:46] <shoX> dungeouns are for heroes :>
[00:46] <zamtin> agree with malathor..
[00:46] <r00t_> No it isn't Malathor.
[00:46] <SoCxRhijord> Another bad thing is Players might be forced to solo lower level instances if he can't level a better way
[00:46] <Kreugen> thesuq: there is item decay - once you equip an item, its no drop
[00:46] <][nfrared> these kind of dungeons are good also if you have faction pvp> if you want to just dungeon crawl but have a faction you can do this with your own dungeon
[00:46] <ariqs> for not enough game content at that
[00:46] <Radlin-SH-> . . . Totally disagree with Malathor there
[00:46] <Vinven> to ease saturation of items, make it randomized perhaps
[00:46] <Ivanushka> It sucks to see dungeon full of PC
[00:46] <Cynian> Agreed TehSuq. But perhaps a game where everybody has the same uber equipement will be fun...
[00:46] <Ivanushka> it is dungeon come on
[00:47] <Ivanushka> there should not be people running about
[00:47] <Vinven> bah Malan
[00:47] <peronet> I agree, randomizing dungeons isn't good.. more fun when you feel that you have been there be4..
[00:47] <Radlin-SH-> Instancing allows the weekend gamer to actually enjoy himself, and not wait hours to grab some loot, and find an area not being camped
[00:47] <Ivanushka> knock knock
[00:47] <TehSuq> KREUGEN, no-drop is NOT decay. If you get the best weapon and it's no drop, you STILL don't ever have to hunt for or buy another weapon ever again.
[00:47] <Ivanushka> is there some group in this room
[00:47] <shoX> how about shipwrecks ? this is killer feature
[00:47] <r00t_> Spawn camping and competing for in-game mobs is a huge hassle. People have jobs, and a life outside of the computer. I don't need to revolve my life around a video game just to enjoy some high-end content.
[00:47] <Ivanushka> oh sorry didnt see it was taken..
[00:47] <Slansin_FoH> I like the fact that players will have to mine and harvest tradeskill components from high level dungeons. The same high level dungeons I will haunt to prey upon their unsuspecting selves.
[00:47] <Kreugen> there's no such thing as a best weapon
[00:47] <Fixxxer> i think uninstanced dungeons should wield more loot than instnaced dungeons; IF there is higher risk
[00:47] <Wit> Cynian - DAOC was so boring because everyone got the same uber equipement
[00:47] <B_afraid> sorry whats teh topic? had to feed my dog
[00:47] <Malathor> overcrowing occurs when you have too little content...or something is too good for the challenge involved
[00:47] <SoCxRhijord> Shipwreck Dungeons - that's crazy
[00:47] <Radlin-SH-> I hate . . . hate when high level players claim an area as their own, and leave everyone else out in the cold
[00:47] <Radlin-SH-> instancing solves this
[00:47] <Karma-> then go play eq wit
[00:48] <Wit> I have for 4 years
[00:48] <Wit> err
[00:48] <Minded[DR]> Is WoW in beta or alpha?
[00:48] <Vinven> yes, no matter what, NO ultra rare drops off ultra rare mobs
[00:48] <Wit> well since 1999
[00:48] <Neo-Bahamut> alpha
[00:48] <TehSuq> KREUGEN, definitionally, there must be a best weapon at any given time. In order to keep people coming back, you need item inflation -- always introducing newer and better items. It's an arms race that gets ridiculous.
[00:48] <Minded[DR]> Thanks.
[00:48] <Sask> ughhh hoe they have uber items..that drop..not the same sword or axe for everyone
[00:48] <zamtin> if there's enough interesting content you'll never need instancing, but at least this has both
[00:48] <Helmer> Minded[DR] - WoW is in alpha
[00:48] <ariqs> I noticed you get exploration experience, so maybe there won't be campers
[00:48] <Tetrian> Daoc was relatively balanced in pvp because of the equal gear Wit..
[00:48] <shoX> I guess that shipwreck hides a LOT of loot - it shipwreck come on1 :)
[00:48] <masterjedi77> One thing I think is that there SHOULD be item decay....but it shouldn't be permanent...a Blacksmith (with a high enough repair lvl) should be able to repair it to full...that way it builds an interdependance between characters
[00:48] <SoCxRhijord> Another problem would be if you died, how would you get back to the instance with your friends - it would be more difficult for them to invite you back in
[00:48] <Minded[DR]> When it switched to Beta, do you guys loose all your stuff?
[00:48] <kane> so what even if the best gear came from crafting people would just end up with the same stuff anyway
[00:48] <peronet> TehSuq, some of the best items might be Unique, therefor only One player can weild it on each server.
[00:48] <Sask> same items you quest for
[00:48] <Cynian> Wit, understood, that comment was supposed to be sarcastic. The instanced dungeon is a great idea for casual players, it just leaves more question about frequency of items dropping and the economy of higher level weapons.
[00:48] <Icarium> i dont want to be dependent on blacksmiths
[00:48] <Khurag> It could be a shipreck of a slaveship - no good loot. A pirate ship on the other hand...
[00:48] <SoCxRhijord> You coulnd't teleport into instances :)(
[00:48] <][nfrared> yes harsh item decay, will help this 100% success rate crafting !
[00:48] <r00t_> The dungeon screenshots look awesome though. I just do not want to compete much for spawns. A little competition yes, but the end result should be having fun. Balancing enough content with instancing will probably be an issue though.
[00:48] <Ivanushka> maybe if instanced dungeons had time limit or something?
[00:48] <masterjedi77> it doesn't have to be a fast decay
[00:49] <Minded[DR]> When WoW switches to Beta will you guys lose all your items and characters?
[00:49] <kane> no uberloot was one of the main reasons SWG sucked
[00:49] <TehSuq> PERONET, I find that to be all the more reason for item decay. I don't want all the very best unique items to permanently belong to powergamers (since they got there first).
[00:49] <Vinven> Tet's right, high level gear was commonplace and everyone could get it, not so much competition over it
[00:49] <Ivanushka> there should be uberloot
[00:49] <Neo-Bahamut> You can be invited into instances, so you can go back into the same one if you die and respawn outside.
[00:49] <Oaksheart> competition is what makes games interesting, it would be in bad form to have all bosses instanced for example
[00:49] <][nfrared> no uberloot
[00:49] <Ivanushka> there is no better feeling than finding something cool :)
[00:49] <Neo-Bahamut> I bet there will be bind points in the big dungeons too.'
[00:49] <Kreugen> a constant state of replacing your gear with duplicates doesen's ound so appealing
[00:49] <Fixxxer> yes, competition is always good
[00:49] <Ivanushka> it makes you thrill like winning jackpot
[00:49] <Minded[DR]> When WoW switches to Beta will you guys lose all your items and characters?
[00:49] <SoCxRhijord> Neo, im saying it might be difficult to do that.
[00:49] <Semadin> what kind of cinematics are going to be included with the game?
[00:49] <osiris`> there better be good pvp
[00:49] <shoX> loot clickfest - please save me from this
[00:49] <osiris`> !
[00:49] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> yeah there should be pretty rare itme drops in deep dungeons
[00:49] <Sask> dontmake everyone weapons the same flavor
[00:49] <SoCxRhijord> It's been 3 minutes :P
[00:49] <][nfrared> nah crafting ubah loot is the way to go
[00:49] <Oaksheart> a guild willing to put more time in should get opportunities a guild who doesn't
[00:49] <mcgruff> i wtfpwnz all ur momz lolz
[00:49] <Ivanushka> no cool items
[00:49] <kaziq> I always liked the aspect of being able to block other guilds by racing them and being better, faster to get the mobs. controlling spawns etc
[00:49] <Neo-Bahamut> Hmm. Why would it be difficult?
[00:49] <Ivanushka> no fun
[00:49] <peronet> TehSuq, U might be right, It will actually suck if one player got like 5 unique items... hmmz
[00:49] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:50] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay the community seems to like the idea of having different types of dungeons, but doesnt seem to like the idea of equipment being too hard to aquire because of high levels camping.
[00:50] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the next topic.
[00:50] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 8. How do you feel about Blizzard community relations around the World of Warcraft? Since the games announcement, what areas in CR has gotten better and what could still be done better, do you think?
[00:50] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 8. How do you feel about Blizzard community relations around the World of Warcraft? Since the games announcement, what areas in CR has gotten better and what could still be done better, do you think?
[00:51] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> (sorry for no bold on first)
[00:51] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:51] <Vinven> heh its okay
[00:51] <Khurag> CR?
[00:51] <][nfrared> no comment
[00:51] <SoCxRhijord> CR = Creation?
[00:51] <Kheldon> community relations
[00:51] <TehSuq> Varrick, please stop spamming with the multiple posts. ;)
[00:51] <SoCxRhijord> oh
[00:51] <PsychicOracle> Customer Relations or whatever
[00:51] <Khurag> ah
[00:51] <masterjedi77> I've noticed that there have been more posts made recently by blizzard reps than I remember there being in the past
[00:51] <Griffer> its as it should be. you give too much away and ppl feel that its a promise and HAS to be in game
[00:51] <masterjedi77> I like that
[00:51] <Griffer> keeping quiet is the best route
[00:51] <Kubien> Could use a bit more moderation on the forums
[00:51] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> CR=Community Relations
[00:51] <peronet> everyone want's a release date :) but what can you say..
[00:51] <Neo-Bahamut> I've always thought that they do a pretty good job with PR... but that's just me.
[00:51] <ariqs> I wish they were more accurate with predictions :P
[00:51] <Oaksheart> its fairly quiet, which is good. Builds more hype for the game
[00:51] <masterjedi77> hahaha, yeah
[00:51] <kaziq> I like the lack of hype
[00:51] <Kheldon> I personally think they should have waited a year before announcing the game. Too long blackout periods since they announced the game.
[00:51] <SoCxRhijord> I've always been appreciative of any CR
[00:51] <shoX> Blizz has loyal community
[00:51] <Sask> Start releasing demo's again..like the old days of Warcraft and Warcraft2 =(
[00:52] <Wit> The last couple of days when GF and MH went on a reply spree the forums were actually decent to read.
[00:52] <Vinven> yes, always keep an open ear to the source of your income :D just try to weed out the whiners from real issues
[00:52] <Ivanushka> i hope they will let everyone in beta
[00:52] <SoCxRhijord> I want 3D Screenshots
[00:52] <masterjedi77> agree
[00:52] <Ivanushka> at least for last 2 or 3 weeks
[00:52] <Malathor> hard to demo a mmorpg sask..:/
[00:52] <Ivanushka> like anarchy online
[00:52] <r00t_> Community Relations have been good, but this is all speculation - the real test is when things in the game break, or other things go wrong. Being in the dark and feeling like your opinion doesnt matter/isn't relevent isn't fun. Getting constant feedback from the community like this makes me feel a lot better about the future of the game though.
[00:52] <TehSuq> DAoC appointed a community relations expert who spoke to the community, giving away tidbits, at LEAST once per week with a Friday Grab Bag. I'd love to see GF of someone take that upon themselves, promising to tell the community something substantive EVERY week, even if it was just a tidbit.
[00:52] <Neo-Bahamut> The mods precense actually made the forums halfway civil for a while...
[00:52] <shoX> 'jump from the windows you will get a beta spot' - say it Blizz and I'll do it ! ~~
[00:52] <kane> if they said tomorrow beta was going to start my opinion of CR would skyrocket
[00:52] <Ivanushka> to give everyone the chance to see game
[00:52] <Oaksheart> no date announcements if things aren't 100%
[00:52] <ariqs> i was really mad when bliz got on bnetd's case, and I think that was shitty of them since regular battle.net was full of script kiddies at the time
[00:52] <Khurag> Demo wouldn't work. But video and screanshots are :happy:
[00:52] <masterjedi77> more like if it actually DID start tomorrow Kane :-)
[00:53] <TehSuq> Answering fan questions on a weekly basis from E-Mail would be even better, even if the answer was sometimes "I know this is a popular question, and we're aware that you're interested, but we just can't answer that right now -- sorry."
[00:53] <Kreugen> if they banned a few hundred people from battle.net forums they'd be making headway
[00:53] <Sask> make sure you flood the servers..like all MOG retail day....or it will be a nightmare
[00:53] <Ivanushka> i would think better of their staff
[00:53] <r00t_> I hope that when classes are unbalanced, or when exploits are there that Blizzard actually listens to its customers and works toward a common goal.
[00:53] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 2 minutes left * (sorry we got 2 more topics to do before the end of the WoW CC)
[00:53] <Ivanushka> if some DEV was here with us
[00:53] <Tetrian> lol kreugen
[00:53] <Karunel> E-mail answers can't be done
[00:53] <Sask> with beta testers..I mean..to test the servers
[00:53] <Karunel> Be realistic people :|
[00:53] <adonys> WILL WOW BE PLAYED ON XBOX TOO?!!
[00:53] <Ivanushka> somebody could come to see what we are talking
[00:53] <][nfrared> ./agree Tehsuq Friday grab bag was great... ALSO PLEASE make a camelot Herald type of rumor conttrol website, place where people can go and get correct info without spoilers
[00:53] <Kreugen> an updated faq would sure be nicfe
[00:53] * Vinven nods
[00:53] <Ivanushka> it is like they dont care what we are doing here
[00:53] <shoX> they should ban more
[00:53] <PsychicOracle> Adonys, if you're not kidding, then no, probably not.
[00:53] <peronet> adonys, don't think soo, no porting has been announced.
[00:53] <TehSuq> KARUNEL, I don't mean that they reply by E-Mail; I mean they reply publicly to E-Mails received.
[00:53] <Ivanushka> ok it is comminitiy chat but still they should come here
[00:54] <Kheldon> If Blizzard had announced WoW later, I'd think their community relations would have had the right pace.
[00:54] <Kreugen> someone to compile all the crap on the boards into one information source, etc
[00:54] <SoCxRhijord> They should make the Forums better, somehow :P
[00:54] <Malathor> Signal/noise ratio on the bnet forums is not good..:(
[00:54] <Malkin> Gfraizer will handle the whole CSR stuff =))
[00:54] <Oaksheart> Email questions are usually redundant
[00:54] <Karunel> TehSuq, still, that's 10000000000 mails
[00:54] <Kubien> As long as their rep doesn't get things wrong pretty offten like Sanya ;)
[00:54] <Oaksheart> stuff like "what is the best race" or "so whens beta coming out"
[00:54] <Karunel> They can't bother reading that
[00:54] <Karunel> Even 1%
[00:54] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:54] * Reefah has joined #worldofwarcraft
[00:54] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay thanks for the input on this. We got 2 more questions for you to give us some input on.
[00:54] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Lets pass to the 9th questions right away.
[00:54] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 9. What are your hopes about the Faction system?
[00:55] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:55] <SoCxRhijord> Maybe making the Alpha patch notes public would please people.
[00:55] <r00t_> I hope it doesn't divide guilds/friends.
[00:55] <][nfrared> great pvp
[00:55] <masterjedi77> I'm not sure I understand
[00:55] <smatts> I hope there is full blown faction vs faction pvp
[00:55] <Fixxxer> STORY. Must have interactive story to make PvP worth while
[00:55] <Kreugen> I hope I can kill gnomes indiscriminately despite the faction
[00:55] <Vinven> hmm, not really informed well on it, so just hope it doesnt suck :D
[00:55] <Kheldon> I hope it's flexible in the way of allowing traitors, ect
[00:55] <masterjedi77> oh, gotcha :-)
[00:55] <Ivanushka> hope there will be some mass scales faction operations
[00:55] <Radlin-SH-> Two things: #1 That the factions change as the history of WoW progresses. #2 PVP b/w factions (as previously discussed)
[00:55] <SoCxRhijord> I hope there are a lot of Mini-towns that can be taken over
[00:55] <PsychicOracle> I think Faction changing should be possible, but only after almost a character's lifetime (the time it takes to reach maximum level) of constant effort to fully change factions.
[00:55] <Kubien> The option of chaging factions would be nice, if it was very difficult to do.
[00:55] <Oaksheart> I hope the dwarves splinter off into various terrorist cells
[00:55] <shoX> I think I'll fall in love :)
[00:55] <Khurag> PvP, Mass Battles
[00:55] <ariqs> SoCxRhijord: its around if you look
[00:55] <][nfrared> i can't stand pvp where i have to say yes to.
[00:55] <Wit> Agree w/ Fixxer - an interactive story would be awesome
[00:55] <Kheldon> that way allowing internal fights...an orc tribe allying with the new threat
[00:55] <Kheldon> ect
[00:55] <Karunel> I'd hope it has a real impact, that means no "All races all classes guilds"
[00:55] <Malathor> Full factional PvP
[00:55] <Vinven> there should be diplomatic immunity to those who seek it
[00:55] <Slansin_FoH> I hope some sort of dwarven superiority can be established over all the other races.
[00:55] <r00t_> Faction vs Faction wars will add a lot of depth to the game - I just hope it's not forced on anyone.
[00:55] <shoX> this needs to be massive as title states
[00:55] <Neo-Bahamut> Ah, I hope for excelent RP'ed reasons for conflict from it.
[00:55] <Kubien> As long as it doesn't split into 3 factions, its all good.
[00:55] <Wit> lol slansin
[00:56] <][nfrared> yes Vinven
[00:56] <Ivanushka> there should be some cool stuff for beeing in faction
[00:56] <Semadin> i am wondering if there will be mass storyline related faction events...like if the alliance were to try and ressurect cenarius and the horde has to stop them...etc
[00:56] <Karunel> Also maybe faction leaders would give orders to clans in order to make the game more dynamic. Acomplish them, get a reward
[00:56] <Kreugen> faction PVP was already asked, they must be asking about NPC faction?
[00:56] <SoCxRhijord> There should be many different Battle Grounds too
[00:56] <TehSuq> I have always been a faction whore in MMORPGs. My fondest hope is that someday, a faction I worked hard to improve saves my life in PvP: I work hard, get neutral or friendly with some bad, bad, bad guys in a PvP zone, and then flee from marauders into the inviting arms of my allies where 1v8 turns into 18v8. Pow! Instant ambush.
[00:56] <Ivanushka> for example lets say you become seargent you could get +1 skill to some melee or something
[00:56] <Malathor> Allowing different factions to contact each other but not group or talk and yet not be able to PvP each other is very very bad
[00:56] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> you should have to earn a you rights to be in a faction not just placed i one
[00:56] <shoX> horde has no chance to survive :~~
[00:56] <Ivanushka> and that faction score would drop if you are inactive
[00:56] <Ivanushka> so you would loose bonus
[00:56] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 2 more minutes *
[00:56] <Cynian> I'm still not sure. SWG's was my most recent MMORPG and that did factions so poorly that I'm not sure I want that type of system. I'd rather see the carebear DAoC servers for characters 1-50 and 51+ gets to do factional PvP optionally.
[00:56] <r00t_> TehSuq: I agree completely.
[00:56] <][nfrared> neutral faction is good! easy to get, harder to goto one faction
[00:56] <Oaksheart> GM events don't work very well on a large scale, you end up with hundreds of people in one zone spamming away while GM's randomly pick a person to deal with
[00:56] <Vinven> to hang out with friends, to be a merchant to both factions and other rp reasons diplomatic immunity is good, perhaps sought through quests to prove your nuetrality
[00:56] <Draz> 2 more minutes for what
[00:56] <Fixxxer> FAction battles should be able to happen ANYWHERE
[00:56] <Draz> 2 MORE MINUTES FOR WHAT?
[00:57] <Oaksheart> until beta is announced
[00:57] <Ivanushka> til BETA START! :)
[00:57] <shoX> for beta
[00:57] <Draz> o
[00:57] <Malathor> Amen Fixxer
[00:57] <Tetrian> lol
[00:57] <masterjedi77> :-)
[00:57] <Fixxxer> Its stupid to be able to walk by a faction enemy and not be able to attack them. just plain unrealistic
[00:57] <shoX> oOmg its Real!!1111
[00:57] <pyre_> for npc faction, make it mean more than just x race hates you and y race likes you and gives you quests.
[00:57] <SoCxRhijord> I always enjoy watching a fight in the Towns
[00:57] <Tetrian> Draz, to give oppinions on Factions..
[00:57] <Draz> you bnet kids are so gonna get owned lol
[00:57] <Vinven> Large scale faction wars, not just squables
[00:57] <TehSuq> ROOT, I did that once in DAoC and crooned about it for three MONTHS. Eight enemies followed me into a swarm of vendos, who just happened to like me and hate them....
[00:57] <Fixxxer> town fights are great
[00:57] <][nfrared> i mean easy to becoem neutral from one faction, i hate how world will be split... did not like DAOC's way that you only had 1/3 the world to yourself
[00:57] <Ivanushka> if i play dwarf i want to be able to kill any orc i see :)
[00:57] <shoX> bnet kids are experienced tho
[00:57] <Draz> lol
[00:57] <Tetrian> right
[00:57] <klyss|afk> jejeje, town fights in factions!
[00:57] <Vinven> I want to see like 50 vs 50, that would be awesome
[00:57] <SoCxRhijord> I hope gladiatorial battles aren't the only fights
[00:57] <kane> i wasnt really crazy about daocs faction pvp all it really did was limit the amound of aera you could explore with out making a second char or geting PKed, but i do think you should only beable to group with your own faction
[00:57] <TehSuq> Having NPC factions matter in PvP zones makes those factions MEAN something.
[00:57] <Ivanushka> or paladin walking by undead
[00:57] <Wit> A map with visible land aquisition when the story evolves--a wish anyways.
[00:57] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[00:58] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay thank you for your input people, lets go with the last question
[00:58] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> 10. Recent comments from GFraizer and observations of released character creation screenshots imply that there will be no character height or weight customizeable ability. What do you think about that?
[00:58] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: -m
[00:58] <Griffer> sucks.
[00:58] <Radlin-SH-> I could care less
[00:58] <Radlin-SH-> :P
[00:58] <Kreugen> boo hiss
[00:58] <Radlin-SH-> not to sound blunt
[00:58] <][nfrared> patch later
[00:58] <smatts> doesn't matter
[00:58] <r00t_> Don't care.
[00:58] <Kubien> Fine with me
[00:58] <Ivanushka> isnt that important
[00:58] <Wolfen> Really sucks
[00:58] <Vinven> eh, not that great
[00:58] <Radlin-SH-> but, it's really not a big deal
[00:58] * TehSuq shrugs indifferently.
[00:58] <Neo-Bahamut> don't care.
[00:58] <Oaksheart> as long as gnomes can have beards it's ok
[00:58] <Keystone_FoH> who cares
[00:58] <Khurag> Awww
[00:58] <Vinven> Isnt a huge issue, but would be nice
[00:58] <Karunel> Sucks a bit...
[00:58] <Fixxxer> It's be neat to have, but its not that big of a deal
[00:58] <Malkin> Its all good as long as we can adjust bust size and have lotsa lotsa lotsa options for hair and faces =-)
[00:58] <Oaksheart> and pointy red hats, and eldery wives
[00:58] <kane> who cares
[00:58] <Keystone_FoH> long as i can pl all the way to the top$
[00:58] <jolu-AW> I want height but not weight
[00:58] <Ivanushka> but it will suck if you cant make a bald dwarf!
[00:58] <ariqs> it is always fun to make your char more unique, but I guess they had their reasons
[00:58] <Semadin> i think height choice would add a small but noticable diversity
[00:58] <][nfrared> character customizablity is VERY IMPORTANT, but can be placed in a patch
[00:58] <SoCxRhijord> Height and Weight give wrong impressions
[00:58] <Kheldon> I don't like it very much. Every race should have some ability to customize height and weight
[00:58] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> * 2 more minutes *
[00:58] <osiris`> imo make some caracter customability o.o
[00:58] <Dariuas> It can be patched yes
[00:59] <Fixxxer> you could always add body alteration at a later time
[00:59] <Oaksheart> I liked shadowbanes strength system, the stronger you are the larger your characters build
[00:59] <Oaksheart> was noticeable over time
[00:59] <Dariuas> but what of all the pre-patch characters
[00:59] <Vinven> but your height and weight could be part of roleplaying and background, if it could be implemented it would be nice
[00:59] <masterjedi77> well, the main thing is that every race will look the same...no varient in character size...
[00:59] <Slansin_FoH> it ruins my hopes and dreams of roleplaying a morbidly obese armor crafter
[00:59] <Tetrian> Removes alot of flavor in the character creation, but not really a big issue
[00:59] <Khurag> Weight should have a small bar of costomizability
[00:59] <Dariuas> that are going to be the same height/weight
[00:59] <SoCxRhijord> Body alteration should be Earned
[00:59] <shoX> this is a topic to whine right? :~~~
[00:59] <Fixxxer> yes Oaksheart. i agree
[00:59] <Ivanushka> but there should be some minor variabiliy
[00:59] <SoCxRhijord> Body alterations should be a reward
[00:59] <Ivanushka> so not all are same size
[00:59] <TehSuq> Customization is nice, and Blizzard has already announced that there would be much customization. Whether that means I can make a fat Gnome, a tall Gnome, a long-nosed Gnome, or a blue-eyed Gnome doesn't matter, just so long as my Gnome looks different from yours.
[00:59] <kane> oh well there goes my hopes and dreams of making a morbidly obese gnome =(
[00:59] <r00t_> It could easily be a patched feature yea. Cosmetic changes like that shouldn't really make or break the initial experience of the game.
[00:59] <Tetrian> gonna see more identical people around cause of it prolly :X
[00:59] <][nfrared> must have MANY clothes options also, Many clothe dyes/armor dyes
[00:59] <ariqs> heh, by buying food or soemthing? lol
[00:59] <Semadin> seeing chars in each race the same height would get boring to the eye
[00:59] <Wit> Any character customization is awesome, but its not as important as content is to me.
[00:59] <Fixxxer> i dont mean alterations like plastic surgery.. i mean like what Oaksheart said
[00:59] <Ivanushka> maybe some craft could make you taller
[00:59] <ariqs> something also
[00:59] <][nfrared> LET us not look like eveyrone else !
[00:59] <Kreugen> kane: a basketball?
[00:59] <Cynian> weight I don't really care about anyways, but the lack of customization for height does make me sad. On the good side our CPU's will have an easier time rendering the various people's appearances because there will be fewer options (SWG's main reason for such a pooer frame rate). On the down side we're goign to all look very similar.
[00:59] <kane> lol
[00:59] <SoCxRhijord> As one anounced int he forums once - You earn cosmetic points to increase height or something
[00:59] <Ivanushka> like shoemaking and making bigger shoes :)
[00:59] <shoX> there is a reason : variety of races
[00:59] <Vinven> we all need to be unique
[00:59] <Malkin> Humans: min 5.00 max 6.2" dwarves min 2.00 max 4.00" =)
[00:59] <Draz> I liked the fact in eq you could tell the different between a high lvl gear with good gear, and an average joe
[00:59] <Oaksheart> dyes kind of wiped that out
[00:59] <Kheldon> Malkin: Exactly
[00:59] <Oaksheart> minus weaponry
[01:00] <Khurag> Or if you eat to much your avatar gets pudgy
[01:00] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> i think it would be cool if you loose weight if you havent feed you char for some time and if you feed him lots he gains weight (only a small portion though)
[01:00] <Kheldon> Allowing for some variety without making it totally weird
[01:00] <pyre_> in pvp, who wants to have a bigger model. kobolds in daoc could hide behind almost anything with the smaller model.
[01:00] <Ivanushka> hope every race will have some special ability
[01:00] <Ivanushka> besides skill bonuses
[01:00] <Helm-SH> ya
[01:00] <Draz> that was nice, you could tell who was and has seen the game, dont make dyes they ruin it
[01:00] <SoCxRhijord> a fat undead person would look weird.
[01:00] <Helm-SH> UD are immune to fear
[01:00] <Kheldon> big boned
[01:00] <Kheldon> :P
[01:00] <Malkin> Kheldon but come on if there are enough face customizations maybe youll overlook not being able to scale height/width? +)
[01:00] <Kubien> I would rather have a lot of character customisation as far as armor and weapons go rather then tall/short fat/thin
[01:00] <ariqs> pyre: I alway thought kobolds in daoc had an hide ability
[01:00] <kane> they do undeads get FD =)
[01:00] <Vinven> dyes are awesome though, I want to express my fashion style being a skinny elf in all purple
[01:00] <TehSuq> SOCX, he's not fat, he's big-boned.
[01:00] <Cynian> darn dirty lurikeen enchanters PBAOEing everything and biting your ankles
[01:00] <Malathor> Its fluff...concentrate on gameplay...:)
[01:00] <][nfrared> Go to old UO for dyes and character customize,
[01:00] <Kreugen> I think we should age visibly, until eventually you feel compelled to take your old decrepeted adventurer out back and shoot him, then start over
[01:00] <smatts> taurens are going to be big fat targets on the battlefield, gnomes will have the best chance to hide behind stuff
[01:00] <Radlin-SH-> I mean, character customization is great and all. But I don't think this is a huge deal. Height and weight aren't going to be the deciding factor of whether I will play this game. I do however, want to spiffify my gnome :)
[01:00] <shoX> undead is the smallest becuz it lies on ground
[01:00] <Ivanushka> like some immunity or something
[01:00] <Malkin> i mean weight
[01:00] <Malkin> :)
[01:00] <Ivanushka> dwarves resistant to poison
[01:01] <Ivanushka> etc..
[01:01] <Griffer> dont you think the gnomes look a lot like troll dolls?
[01:01] <Vinven> yeah, if there are a range of chars looks and other good features of custimizing it would be forgivable
[01:01] <[DPx]`Whit3_Cr0W> i think it would be cool if you loose weight if you havent feed you char for some time and if you feed him lots he gains weight (only a small portion though)
[01:01] <pyre_> yeah, those bastard gnomes are gonna be hard to find.
[01:01] <Helm-SH> fat people shouldnt be able to fit thru some doors LOL!
[01:01] <Kheldon> Malkin: I don't think so..IU noticed the body before the face usually..the build to me is more important :P
[01:01] <Ivanushka> i think your beard should grow
[01:01] <Neo-Bahamut> yep, they do look like those "wishing troll" dolls.
[01:01] <Ivanushka> i want to play old wizard
[01:01] <Ivanushka> with long beard
[01:01] <Malkin> oh come on!
[01:01] <Malkin> :)
[01:01] <smatts> okay there gandalf
[01:01] <Khurag> Hair growth and build costimization
[01:01] <Ivanushka> :)
[01:01] <pyre_> lol
[01:01] <SoCxRhijord> Facial hair growing would build need for Groomers
[01:01] * Varrick_ChaosWielder sets mode: +m
[01:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Okay so everyone would like some customization for their character, but its not a critical feature, but a nice one to have nonetheless.
[01:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Well thank you very much for attending tonight's World of Warcraft Community Chat.
[01:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> I Hope everyone had fun, and got to participate by giving their input on our questions.
[01:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> The log of this chat will later be posted on http://wow.stratics.com so be sure to tell your friends if they missed it.
[01:02] <Varrick_ChaosWielder> Now back to your scheduled regular channel... Have fun guys and gals!